Flexjet Response to NJA new offer:

[walshsfly]

So how many planes and pilots does FlexJet have now?

Why do you care you left remember? Or are you looking to come back?

 

[vixin]

Because I have good friends still at FlexJet. I am proving a myth wrong that FJ is growing rapidly. He11 no I dont want to go back. Lets see I make more then 9 year Challenger CA and I am off 4 days more a month. Plus my present company actually follows the rest rules. But my question was out of curiosity. Thanks 300 for answering. Wlashfly get your head out of your arse and you may see some light. Been there done that and have to many tee shirts.

 

[Wiggums]

The 300 is selling so well that we cant get enough guys through initial to get all of them flying.

Why not? NetJets is five times the size of flexjet, yet they mange to staff their aircraft at a higher ratio then Flex. So what is so different about the 300 program?

 

[NETFLIER]

wig, if i may.

thier 420+ pilots at flexjet for 100 airplanes is actually OVERSTAFFED. see because thier POI allows them to operate under "different" rest rules of 91k, their rest can be interrupted, and for some reason the pilots allow it. Flexjet forever has operated at a 3.85 pilots per airplane and with the rest rules and nearly 16-18 days a month the pilots work they can get away with it. While here at Netjets we operate at 5.2 pilots per airplane, and comply with the full intent of 91k. 5.2 is actually too many pilots.

300 will deny it forever because he sits in the office, but thier attrition is at 15-20% and soon to get higher.

 

[atpcliff]

Hi!

When USA Jet had their mass layoff in 2001, NetJets showed up in DTW and interviewed everyone that wanted to. The USA Jet recruiter called the NJ guy and set it up. No other frac did that.

I talked to the NJ recruiter on the phone, but didn't meet the mins then.

cliff
YIP

 

[japhy]

I was here at Flexjet 18 months ago and we did NOT have 425 pilots. We just broke 400 pilots this year. We've hired around 30 just in the past couple of months. They are interviewing twice a week and new hire classes are being started every two weeks right now.

So the myth IS true. We are growing.

 

[NETFLIER]

There is no myth, they are growing, pure fact.....

just at the expense of the pilots.

 

[Nolife]

wig, if i may.

thier 420+ pilots at flexjet for 100 airplanes is actually OVERSTAFFED. see because thier POI allows them to operate under "different" rest rules of 91k, their rest can be interrupted, and for some reason the pilots allow it. Flexjet forever has operated at a 3.85 pilots per airplane and with the rest rules and nearly 16-18 days a month the pilots work they can get away with it. While here at Netjets we operate at 5.2 pilots per airplane, and comply with the full intent of 91k. 5.2 is actually too many pilots.

Not true... 10 hrs rest ALWAYS. Very generous work rules in my opinion. Feds allow one call per 10 hrs rest before starting the clock over so that's what they do. It's also tough to be the most efficient the other way... waiting until 10 hrs before setting the day up.

The pilot to plane ratio is something like 4.25 or so. Flex has fewer core aircraft which generates higher efficiency and less wasted expense. Makes sense to me but then again I am slow.

 

[CL300Pilot]

Netflier,

No, I don't sit in the office. I am a line pilot. Second. Our airplanes are not staffed at 3.85, it is 4.87. Third. I have been here over 2 years and have yet to have my rest interupted. Fourth. We fly under 135, 91K and 91, so I don't know what other rules you think we fly under.

When I started here 2 years ago, we had 317 pilots. We are now up to 435 as of a list today. Do we have attrition, yes. But we are also growing.

Will our attrition get higher, who knows, probably so. I can guarantee we will have people leaving us for NJA, and I wish them luck. I personally have no issue with NJA or their pilots. I also have no issues with people leaving us for NJA or other companies. I feel that if you are not happy where you are, then do what you must. If was was looking for work right now, I would most likely pick NJA over Flex due to everything that has been posted here. However, even though your guys make more money, I have to say, I would just as soon stay here at Flex. I have been around long enough that chasing the all mighty dollar is not all it is cracked up to be.

Flex is not for everyone, I cannot deny that. But if you are happy with who you work for and what you do, then that is all that matters.

wig, if i may.

thier 420+ pilots at flexjet for 100 airplanes is actually OVERSTAFFED. see because thier POI allows them to operate under "different" rest rules of 91k, their rest can be interrupted, and for some reason the pilots allow it. Flexjet forever has operated at a 3.85 pilots per airplane and with the rest rules and nearly 16-18 days a month the pilots work they can get away with it. While here at Netjets we operate at 5.2 pilots per airplane, and comply with the full intent of 91k. 5.2 is actually too many pilots.

300 will deny it forever because he sits in the office, but thier attrition is at 15-20% and soon to get higher.

 

[bailey3083]

Netflier,

No, I don't sit in the office. I am a line pilot. Second. Our airplanes are not staffed at 3.85, it is 4.87. Third. I have been here over 2 years and have yet to have my rest interupted. Fourth. We fly under 135, 91K and 91, so I don't know what other rules you think we fly under.

When I started here 2 years ago, we had 317 pilots. We are now up to 435 as of a list today. Do we have attrition, yes. But we are also growing.

Will our attrition get higher, who knows, probably so. I can guarantee we will have people leaving us for NJA, and I wish them luck. I personally have no issue with NJA or their pilots. I also have no issues with people leaving us for NJA or other companies. I feel that if you are not happy where you are, then do what you must. If was was looking for work right now, I would most likely pick NJA over Flex due to everything that has been posted here. However, even though your guys make more money, I have to say, I would just as soon stay here at Flex. I have been around long enough that chasing the all mighty dollar is not all it is cracked up to be.

Flex is not for everyone, I cannot deny that. But if you are happy with who you work for and what you do, then that is all that matters.

The people I have talked to who might be jumping from Flex to NJA is not because they are unhappy it is because they want to live closer to home. So far every person is a commuter and the new bases will allow them to live at home finally.
We also have people who love their job at Flex but have dreams of flying at the Legacy carriers and will be departing over the next year. So happiness is not always the issue.

Bailey

 

[bailey3083]

Been there done that and have to many tee shirts.

Are they cool T-shirts? Maybe I could borrow one? My freight dawg and Regional T-Shirts are gettin worn pretty badly. LOL

Bailey

 

[Ultra Grump]

Not true... 10 hrs rest ALWAYS. Very generous work rules in my opinion. Feds allow one call per 10 hrs rest before starting the clock over so that's what they do. It's also tough to be the most efficient the other way... waiting until 10 hrs before setting the day up.

Of course it's more efficient that way. It may also be illegal. "Prospective Rest." Look it up.

 

[ProFracPilot]

Perhaps Flex's POI is somehow related to D.M. - the POI for FlOps. The ROC FSDO and D.M. in particular somehow manage to rewrite and "interpret" the FAR's to the benefit of FlOps. Maybe they do the same for Flex.

Do nothing illegal, either for or against, the Company.

PfP

 

[SDCFI]

Floating Rest

There's nothing illegal about floating rest under Part 135. It's a gray area that pilots have wanted cleaned up for years, however the FAA has decided not to fix it...yet. To their credit they did clear it up under 91k, however Flex management was able to convince the POI to allow us to use 135 rules for all operations, even those under 91 and 91k. So, Flex pilots do not get called during rest, that would be illegal. However we do get called during that period after required rest is satisfied, but we are not on duty yet, and under the current 135 rules can still be counted as "rest" when looking back. Does it suck? Yes. Is it illegal? Not right now. Aren't they supposed to be re-writing 135 or something? How close are they to being done?

 

[NJA bound]

You're not on rest unless you can have a beer!

It doesn't get any simpler.

 

[atpcliff]

Hi!

The FAA has been sitting on the -135 rewrite for 2+ years since the committee finished their rewrite reccomendations.

Someone said that fixing the charter/certificate/control issues were deemed more important by the FAA.

cliff
ABQ

 

[gunfyter]

If you have to answer the phone ... YOU are NOT in Rest.

If you happen to answer the phone and have to come in to fly ... you are not in rest.


Speaking of rest...

Interesting article:

Emergency Order of Suspension​

Item 33​

On at least six separate occasions, the Director of Operations stated how FOS calculates rest requirements. The manner of calculation that he described is contrary to the regulations.

​

I am curious to know how rest calculations were explained to the FAA.

 

[atpcliff]

Hi!

Just because your POI or your FSDO says it's OK doesn't mean it's legal. This is one of the major problems with the FAA. They knowingly let illegal stuff go on, and usually do nothing. BUT, if they decide to do something, EVERYONE gets in trouble.

The FAA should require their regional offices, FSDOs, and all of their employees, not to mention aviation organizations, to follow the rules, ALL THE TIME!

In the charter operations debacle, both the POI and the FSDO was letting various organizations do illegal stuff. When FAA HQ finally got around to doing something about it, some organizations got their certificates pulled, and HQ said the POI and FSDO was wrong.

-135 is written very poorly, the FAA knows it, but they've done nothing with the rewrite. Shame on them!

cliff
ABQ

 

[hammer2]

Hi!

Just because your POI or your FSDO says it's OK doesn't mean it's legal. This is one of the major problems with the FAA. They knowingly let illegal stuff go on, and usually do nothing. BUT, if they decide to do something, EVERYONE gets in trouble.

The FAA should require their regional offices, FSDOs, and all of their employees, not to mention aviation organizations, to follow the rules, ALL THE TIME!

In the charter operations debacle, both the POI and the FSDO was letting various organizations do illegal stuff. When FAA HQ finally got around to doing something about it, some organizations got their certificates pulled, and HQ said the POI and FSDO was wrong.

-135 is written very poorly, the FAA knows it, but they've done nothing with the rewrite. Shame on them!

cliff
ABQ

100% agreement, good post!

 

[NETFLIER]

forward the suspension letter noted in a previous post on to the flexjet poi and get his feeling about it.ask him how the other fractional operators all have full rest when crews are released from duty, but flexjet doesnt have to. How could that be?you can say they havent called you in rest for two years, HOWEVER, they have the right to do it, and believe me when the time comes, THEY WILL....contact your POI, I am helping you out by sending a copy of the suspension letter, along with a letter to FAA agency in Washington DC to get the ball rolling.I am only here to help....www.ibt1108.org (the truth shall set you free)