Flexjet Response to NJA new offer:

[dime line]

300 and 400, can you help clarify this a bit more? This is a good discussion...

Lets say I duty off at 6pm, and given a show time of 10am the next morning, and lets also agree that they can all 2 hours prior. So, does that mean they can only call after 8am the next day? It seems to me that they call 8 hours after rest began, which would be 2am in my example. I know I have had days where i thought I was working at noon or something, but the phone rang at 5am. Is that or is that not a violation of the rest rules?

What if, in my example, I keep my phone off until 8am. If they try to call me at 5am and cant get a hold of me, do I get in trouble?

Another example. Duty off at 6am again, given a 11pm show the next night. So a red eye for the next day. Lets say I plan on staying up all night, then maybe going to bed at 7am or so in order to be rested correctly for the red eye. I watch all sorts of re-runs and paid programming, then my phone rings at 6am, and it is the company telling me there is a change of plans, and I have to go to the airport.

Can they or can they not do that?

Sincerely,
Tossing and Turning in Teterhole

About your gettnig into trouble, go and ask 630 pilots at FLOPS if they are getting into trouble. I know I'm not, and my phone if off as soon as the release comes thru, and only comes on at Duty on time.


can they or not......This is their game that your playing, using their rules, untill we at FLOPS get a contract it will be their game. So to answer your question, they can do anything they want, when they want and if you don't like it, not their problem

 

[NJAPLT]

I registered at 1108 6 months ago and can't logon to see what is going on there!

[email protected]

(614) 863-2008

I'm sure they will be able to help you regain access to the message boards.

 

[SDCFI]

Club ORD, just to clarify the FOM actually says we are contactable in the first and last 2 hours of the rest period, not 2 hours prior to duty. So in your example of duty off at 1800 with a 1000 show you would be contactable from 1800-2000 and 0200-0400. It does not however say that you must answer the call, that would be a clear violation of rest. Here is my question: what happens to the period between 0400-1000? The problem is the company gets to have its cake and eat it too. They operate under the premise that they can use you anytime after 0400, as you would have 10 hours of rest, but also if they don't use you until 1000 the time from 0400-1000 is counted as rest because they didn't call you. After reading the comments here and the FAA interpretation of rest via the Whitlow letter I would argue that not only are we not obligated to answer the phone during rest, but we are not usable anytime before 1000 unless the duty period begins at 0400 or the company officially places us in rest until 1000. Since rest has to be prospective in nature they have to tell us we are in rest from 0400-1000, if we are obligated to answer the phone during that period it can't be rest. Along these same lines they should be giving us a rest/duty period while doing home/hotel standby so that we can plan our sleep accordingly.

 

[gunfyter]

DING DING ... We have a winner!

 

[brokeflyer]

Club ORD, just to clarify the FOM actually says we are contactable in the first and last 2 hours of the rest period, not 2 hours prior to duty. So in your example of duty off at 1800 with a 1000 show you would be contactable from 1800-2000 and 0200-0400. It does not however say that you must answer the call, that would be a clear violation of rest. Here is my question: what happens to the period between 0400-1000? The problem is the company gets to have its cake and eat it too. They operate under the premise that they can use you anytime after 0400, as you would have 10 hours of rest, but also if they don't use you until 1000 the time from 0400-1000 is counted as rest because they didn't call you. After reading the comments here and the FAA interpretation of rest via the Whitlow letter I would argue that not only are we not obligated to answer the phone during rest, but we are not usable anytime before 1000 unless the duty period begins at 0400 or the company officially places us in rest until 1000. Since rest has to be prospective in nature they have to tell us we are in rest from 0400-1000, if we are obligated to answer the phone during that period it can't be rest. Along these same lines they should be giving us a rest/duty period while doing home/hotel standby so that we can plan our sleep accordingly.

I remember those days...back when i flew charters.....I hated that stuff....come to netjets and your showtime is the only time they can call you.....lol

 

[atpcliff]

Hi!

CS has more bases, BUT, the require you to live within X miles of one of the bases. I can't work at CS because of their system.

I CAN work at Flex, but the closest base is really far away.

Options-no way!

NetJets looks awesome IF the IBB is approved.

Good luck to you!

cliff
ABQ

 

[400pilot]

Also, understand that there is no duty time limitation under unscheduled 135, only a preceding rest requirement of 10 hours in the previous 24 hours. When you start thinking in terms of "preceding rest", it makes it easier to understand what qualifies and what does not.

 

[doylehargraves]

The ibt1108 Flex website has a grand total of 50 something members with an all time high of 13 members viewing at one time.

Think again. There are over 140 members now.

And to all of you peeps talking about contact from the company during rest; yes, it says they can contact us once after 8 hours. THERE IS NOTHING IN OUR FOM THAT SAYS WE HAVE TO ANSWER!

I do like the reference to CS. Flexjet guys should be asking for similar terms that CS has because we are the same size etc....
Hey Flexjet guys: look at the daily O/T rate of CS.

 

[dime line]

Hi!

CS has more bases, BUT, the require you to live within X miles of one of the bases. I can't work at CS because of their system.

I CAN work at Flex, but the closest base is really far away.

Options-no way!

NetJets looks awesome IF the IBB is approved.

Good luck to you!

cliff
ABQ

Good man, wait till the contract

 

[gunfyter]

I would not wait. NJA is a very good place to work.

 

[DirtyBeech]

Think again. There are over 140 members now.

And to all of you peeps talking about contact from the company during rest; yes, it says they can contact us once after 8 hours. THERE IS NOTHING IN OUR FOM THAT SAYS WE HAVE TO ANSWER!

I do like the reference to CS. Flexjet guys should be asking for similar terms that CS has because we are the same size etc....
Hey Flexjet guys: look at the daily O/T rate of CS.

You're correct. 50 something threads with 140ish members. Still about 80 short of what is needed to do anything. I'd rather just see mgt. do the right thing without the union, but I'm not getting my hopes up.

 

[Flyingdog1]

I'd rather just see mgt. do the right thing without the union, but I'm not getting my hopes up.

Never have, never will.

 

[Nolife]

Of course it's more efficient that way. It may also be illegal. "Prospective Rest." Look it up.

Lot's of companies do this and I'm not defending it. It's the way of the world right now and just because you don't agree with it doesn't mean it's illegal.

We all know the reg states the "company may not assign and no crew member may accept an assignment that will not allow for 10 hrs rest in the 24 consecutive..." The fact that the crews accept this assignment means that the time spent in hotel limbo is being viewed as rest by both the company and the crews. The feds aren't handing out violations because it would be too hard to prove in court. The FAA needs to write a more clear definition of Part 135 crew rest and duty, as they did in 91k.