Flexjet, pilots...

[The Architect]

The Truth

These pilots will never be viewed again in the same way. And while aviation spans across the world, most find it is a very small world when it comes to employers and co-workers. So what does this mean?

Well, you can bicker about all of the many angles and effects, but the facts are this. Remove the union/non-union of the two properties and let's look at what they have gained and lost. The have gained another type rating and they gave gained a 401k match (maybe). They have lost longevity should they return to Flight Options.

Now, these are the genuine, up front real gains and loses. But, there really is more.

So, let's get this one out of the way. They lost employment under the protections of a collective bargaining agreement with a just cause provision. The gained "at will" employment. They lost union representation and all the protections it brings with it. But, they gained that uniform. (Had to throw that one in.)

So what else? What is really going to follow them forever. Well, we know this. One day Flexjet and Flight Options will merge. No doubt. And so will those seniority lists. So, one day those who chose to go to the former Flexjet will fly among the former Flight options pilots. Not good. People simply don't forget. That's not a threat. It's reality. It's human nature.

These pilots will forever be singled out. FOREVER. This move will forever be on their resumes. Will show up in their PRIA for some time. And will definitely be subject of any interview anywhere. Their integrity and loyalty will be questioned for the rest of their lives.

And it will go further. Every Flight Options pilots will know who they are by name, Flexjet pilots will know who they are by name, NJ pilots will know who they are, TMC pilots will know who they are, XO pilots will know who they are...and most probably...if they ever decide to TRY to go 121...well, the connection will be made. And let's not forget, for all of the above... management will know who they are.

There are some things in this industry you just don't do. The risk is too high. A move like this...well, the risk will most likely prove too high.

How will the Flexjet pilots really feel? Oh, some the people that have been busy lately, and have returned here in full force will argue all of the reasons why they shunned Flight Options. Owned by the same parent company, I remind you. But, what will the regular line pilot at Flexjet think about one of these guys? Let's see, they are on the bottom of the seniority list but making more money than those senior to them. They will be senior again one day because they will have more longevity when the lists are merged. And, they flipped sides for only the personal gain of a type and a 401k match. Wouldn't you love to be a fly on the wall a few months from now when one of these guys leaves the pilot lounge with their new Flexjet peers left in the room?

Now, time will tell. Maybe someone besides KR will view them as heroes. But I would bet not.

You can bicker about the move they made. You can bicker about which is the better place to work. You can bicker about who will fly what. You can bicker about which is the better property.

But, the truth is this. These properties will eventually operationally merge. The seniority lists will merge. And you will work together. The truth is these guys had the individual choice, they took it. They will live with it FOREVER.

And meanwhile..KR and his puppeteers, again laugh off of others backs.

 

[TWA 2 ASA FO]

TWA I'll call your last remark FUD. Next, one of my friends is half way down the list and he hasn't been called. He thinks they are giving the guys at the top of the list a second call before going thru the whole list once. I smell something.....

I think the decision was made after the Gulfstream announcement to give people a second chance.

Wouldn't the same thing happen under your CBA if they added a new position to a bid? Or, does your fiend think that the seniority shouldn't matter and he should get first choice?

 

[DirtyBeech]

So my question would be why would Flops guys come over in droves after the G order? Most of those tails are 3+ years from fruition other than the 450's and they'll be junior on our list. Are they hoping to fill vacated seats in the 300 as Flex pilots take G positions? Are they wanting the G'a themselves? How do they hope to get them. I guess I don't understand why a three year wait Gulfstreams flips the switch. Help me understand.

 

[TWA 2 ASA FO]

These pilots will never be viewed again in the same way. And while aviation spans across the world, most find it is a very small world when it comes to employers and co-workers. So what does this mean?

Well, you can bicker about all of the many angles and effects, but the facts are this. Remove the union/non-union of the two properties and let's look at what they have gained and lost. The have gained another type rating and they gave gained a 401k match (maybe). They have lost longevity should they return to Flight Options.

Now, these are the genuine, up front real gains and loses. But, there really is more.

So, let's get this one out of the way. They lost employment under the protections of a collective bargaining agreement with a just cause provision. The gained "at will" employment. They lost union representation and all the protections it brings with it. But, they gained that uniform. (Had to throw that one in.)

So what else? What is really going to follow them forever. Well, we know this. One day Flexjet and Flight Options will merge. No doubt. And so will those seniority lists. So, one day those who chose to go to the former Flexjet will fly among the former Flight options pilots. Not good. People simply don't forget. That's not a threat. It's reality. It's human nature.

These pilots will forever be singled out. FOREVER. This move will forever be on their resumes. Will show up in their PRIA for some time. And will definitely be subject of any interview anywhere. Their integrity and loyalty will be questioned for the rest of their lives.

And it will go further. Every Flight Options pilots will know who they are by name, Flexjet pilots will know who they are by name, NJ pilots will know who they are, TMC pilots will know who they are, XO pilots will know who they are...and most probably...if they ever decide to TRY to go 121...well, the connection will be made. And let's not forget, for all of the above... management will know who they are.

There are some things in this industry you just don't do. The risk is too high. A move like this...well, the risk will most likely prove too high.

How will the Flexjet pilots really feel? Oh, some the people that have been busy lately, and have returned here in full force will argue all of the reasons why they shunned Flight Options. Owned by the same parent company, I remind you. But, what will the regular line pilot at Flexjet think about one of these guys? Let's see, they are on the bottom of the seniority list but making more money than those senior to them. They will be senior again one day because they will have more longevity when the lists are merged. And, they flipped sides for only the personal gain of a type and a 401k match. Wouldn't you love to be a fly on the wall a few months from now when one of these guys leaves the pilot lounge with their new Flexjet peers left in the room?

Now, time will tell. Maybe someone besides KR will view them as heroes. But I would bet not.

You can bicker about the move they made. You can bicker about which is the better place to work. You can bicker about who will fly what. You can bicker about which is the better property.

But, the truth is this. These properties will eventually operationally merge. The seniority lists will merge. And you will work together. The truth is these guys had the individual choice, they took it. They will live with it FOREVER.

And meanwhile..KR and his puppeteers, again laugh off of others backs.

Call them what you really want to......SCABS.

They aren't, but that is how you are viewing them.

Oh yeah, they are exhibiting "scab like behavior" as one of your fellow brothers previously stated.

Only good thing about aviation is that people like you don't get to make the rules about what is and what isn't being a scab. It is clearly defined and last time I checked the FJ pilots aren't on strike.

 

[GlorifiedCabbie]

TWA=more FUD. The company would have to announce a new position is opening, then open the bid. " I think the decision was made after the Gulfstream announcement to give people a second chance." Sounds like they had trouble filling the class( of 3) before they had to offer another carrot.

 

[TWA 2 ASA FO]

So my question would be why would Flops guys come over in droves after the G order? Most of those tails are 3+ years from fruition other than the 450's and they'll be junior on our list. Are they hoping to fill vacated seats in the 300 as Flex pilots take G positions? Are they wanting the G'a themselves? How do they hope to get them. I guess I don't understand why a three year wait Gulfstreams flips the switch. Help me understand.

I think they see the growth at FJ and want to be part of that.

Maybe when you see them out flying th line later this year you can ask them.

 

[TWA 2 ASA FO]

TWA=more FUD. The company would have to announce a new position is opening, then open the bid. " I think the decision was made after the Gulfstream announcement to give people a second chance." Sounds like they had trouble filling the class( of 3) before they had to offer another carrot.

The first class of 4 was already full before the Gulfstream announcement.

Not sure what you are talking about. You must be getting more bad information.

 

[The Architect]

Never Said

Call them what you really want to......SCABS.

They aren't, but that is how you are viewing them.

Oh yeah, they are exhibiting "scab like behavior" as one of your fellow brothers previously stated.

Only good thing about aviation is that people like you don't get to make the rules about what is and what isn't being a scab. It is clearly defined and last time I checked the FJ pilots aren't on strike.

Let me make this clear. I never said nor intended for these pilots to be call scabs. So, get this on record JM. These pilots are NOT scabs.

Stop trying to twist my words. It won't work.

On the other hand, you raised the topic and name calling. Are you insinuating these guys are scabs? When you see them, how will they feel that you made reference to them as scabs. Nice.

By the way, the definition for a scab is much more encompassing to some the just related to strikes. For example:

Employee who (1) continues to work during strike action at the place of work, (2) accepts work where strike action is going on, (3) takes work in a non-union shop or (4) under non-union conditions where a union is trying to organize a unit. Also called black leg.

Again, slowing losing it there. Getting worst by the day. There's a reason over 90% of the pilots in the industry are unionized.

Hey, did you say goodbye to DW and thank her for her service yet?

 

[GlorifiedCabbie]

"The first class of 4 was already full before the Gulfstream announcement. " TWA. Someone is pulling someone's leg. Either your source is telling you a LIE or my buddy that is waiting for the LR45 has been lied to. Can't have it both ways.

 

[ThePilotsFriend]

Flexjet pilots under your few page work agreement, still believe that they can't / haven't / will not change anything?

1) Confirmed, Deanna White is gone replaced with Mike Silvestro as the CEO.
a. All of the management that you have known and trusted are out. Did they not try to sale the fact that your management would remain intact to make you feel safe? Sorry for the inconvenience but we changed our mind about that.

2) Already junior Flight Options pilots are operating your biggest aircraft ahead of you with seniority protected above and beyond yours.

3) Your do not disturb or call agreement GONE.

4) Junior Flight Options pilots headed your way with the promise of Ken Ricci that they will be in the Lear for just six months and will be transitioned into the G as PIC ahead of all FlexPilots. Dedicated Flight Option crews with seniority protected above and beyond yours.

5) EMB-300 now to be marketed with the Flex store front painted in the new OneSky colors operated solely with Flight Options crews and aircraft will remain on Options certificate.

6) The entire company headquarters will be located in the Flight Options facility in Cleveland this is a fact just you wait and see. The only facility that will remain in TX will be possibly a MX base. Im sorry didn't they also lead you to believe that things would remain in TX? Sorry about your luck.

7) Vacation time now changed to PTO time. Get ready to hear this, Im sorry we are unable to approve your PTO request due to demand.

I can keep going but this is plenty for now and for all you non believers please don't take my word for it call Mike Silvestro and ask him, after all he is your new CEO.

Wake Up Flexjet Pilots.

You wander why I left? it was a question of ethics

 

[TWA 2 ASA FO]

"The first class of 4 was already full before the Gulfstream announcement. " TWA. Someone is pulling someone's leg. Either your source is telling you a LIE or my buddy that is waiting for the LR45 has been lied to. Can't have it both ways.

Sorry your buddy was lied to, but I had a list of 4 pilots who were coming here before the Gulfsteeam announcement.

And based on you guys "threats", no you can't get those names.

 

[TWA 2 ASA FO]

Let me make this clear. I never said nor intended for these pilots to be call scabs. So, get this on record JM. These pilots are NOT scabs.

Stop trying to twist my words. It won't work.

On the other hand, you raised the topic and name calling. Are you insinuating these guys are scabs? When you see them, how will they feel that you made reference to them as scabs. Nice.

By the way, the definition for a scab is much more encompassing to some the just related to strikes. For example:

Employee who (1) continues to work during strike action at the place of work, (2) accepts work where strike action is going on, (3) takes work in a non-union shop or (4) under non-union conditions where a union is trying to organize a unit. Also called black leg.

Again, slowing losing it there. Getting worst by the day. There's a reason over 90% of the pilots in the industry are unionized.

Hey, did you say goodbye to DW and thank her for her service yet?

Absolutely not. You are the one saying this action will follow them in their careers.

I was very suprised with the fact that over 25% of your pilots expressed interest in coming to FJ.

Now you guys are making them very aware of how you feel about their actions. They really sound like threats to me. Exactly what are your plans if we do merge and you end up flying with one of these pilots.

I will be involved in the training of most of these pilots and am looking forward to meeting them.

When I came to FJ all I really had wa 121 experience. There was a steep learning curve for me. The FO pilots coming here have already been doing the same job just in different aircraft and for a dirrerent company. I feel they will do a great job at FJ.

Posted on a different thread by one of your "brothers".

From THE US MASTER PILOT SCABLIST: THE UNIONIST'S EDITION

A SCAB is A Person Who is Doing What You'd be Doing if You Weren't on Strike.

[So by definition, the Boot-Lickers going to FJ are NOT scabs! But they sure exhibit Scab-like behavior & traits! Who else would advance their own career on the backs of a furloughed brother or sister!]

A SCAB takes your job, a Job he could not get under normal circumstances. He can only advance himself by taking advantage of labor disputes and walking over the backs of workers trying to maintain decent wages and working conditions. He helps management to destroy his and your profession, often ending up under conditions he/she wouldn't even have scabbed for. No matter. A SCAB doesn't think long term, nor does he think of anything other then himself. His smile shows fangs that drip with your blood, for he willingly destroys families, lives, careers, opportunities and professions at the drop of a hat. He takes from a striker what he knows he could never earn by his own merit: a decent Job. He steals that which others earned at the bargaining table through blood, sweat and tears, and throws it away in an instant - ruining lives, jobs and careers.

ONCE A SCAB, ALWAYS A SCAB - NEVER FORGET!

 

[slowtation capt]

I was very suprised with the fact that over 25% of your pilots expressed interest in coming to FJ.

Maybe you need to check with your source because of that 25% of pilots, maybe 10% actually want to go to Flex. The other 15% only emailed or called for more information about it. Because there were many holes and if's involved in the email that was sent out. And if anybody even emailed or called and asked a question about it, whether or not they specifically said that they were interested in GOING, not interested in information, they were put on the list and subsequently called to offer them a position. Many people that I spoke to, where surprised when they received a call offering a LR45 right seat. They told you guy that all they did was ask for more informaion, I never said that I was interesting in going, why are you calling me. He tells them because we made a list of any name that emailed, called, or spoke to anybody about anything to do with this offer.

See pilots, well the majority of pilots like to gather as much information as possible, sometimes it might be something that you really don't have much interest in doing in your career, but when something is put out with huge holes, and what if's in it, you are going to find out more about it, and open your eyes to what the reality of the offer might be, whether it's good or bad.

 

[GlorifiedCabbie]

TWA. Why would I threaten any of my friends? And I do know 3 of the pilots going in the first round. I just hope they aren't making a mistake.

 

[TWA 2 ASA FO]

TWA. Why would I threaten any of my friends? And I do know 3 of the pilots going in the first round. I just hope they aren't making a mistake.

I don't think I responded to you.

This was meant for TA and LS since LS stated these fellow brothers are scabs and TA stated the same thing without using the word.