Flexjet Pilot Authorization Card

[Photoflight]

Why are people on the BB willing to accept the promise of a raise in may?

I dont think theres been a promise of anything anywhere....just people assuming that if we are given a raise that is when it will happen.

 

[bailey3083]

DG message was nothing more then a stall tactic to try to get people to shut up about the NJ contract. I see the offering coming down the pike right around April. The message will go kinda like " We are glad to announce we are giving everyone a 5% raise! Yes and we are cutting the work down to 15 days!" then hope everyone shuts up and goes to the corner with their crumbs all happy.
I have seen this before at ACA during contract talks. Air Whisky had just approved a industry leading contract and our management was talking just like DG and in the end we didnt get crap.
I hate to say this but if management does not step up to the plate and hit a grand slam then 51% for a vote will be easy.

 

[Club ORD FO]

Well said Bailey!!!! Its going to take more than just $$$. There are many issues here. Work rules, bases, rest rules, medical, 401k.... those QOL issues (like bases) are more important to me than my daily rate.

And we'll have to wait until may? thats too late...

 

[Nolife]

My take on this is anyone at LXJ yrs 0-4 maybe even year 5 is better off by going to NJA. First year pay is several thousand more, free medical, better vacation, etc. How is LXJ planning to keep those guys from jumping ship with a 5% increase?

The only thing that will help LXJ is that every other frac will be losing pilots to NJA and NJA can only hire so many at a time.

 

[BombJet45]

Management right now is trying to find that sweet spot of only having 50% minus 1 of the pilots wanting a union. IMHO, anything less than what NJ is getting will miss their mark. I do see more and more pilots signing onto the IBT site.

 

[SilverSurfer]

Options Pilot

DG message was nothing more then a stall tactic to try to get people to shut up about the NJ contract. I see the offering coming down the pike right around April. The message will go kinda like " We are glad to announce we are giving everyone a 5% raise! Yes and we are cutting the work down to 15 days!" then hope everyone shuts up and goes to the corner with their crumbs all happy.
I have seen this before at ACA during contract talks. Air Whisky had just approved a industry leading contract and our management was talking just like DG and in the end we didnt get crap.
I hate to say this but if management does not step up to the plate and hit a grand slam then 51% for a vote will be easy.

Excuse the intrusion on your thread gents, I'm an Options pilot and just wanted to throw my 2 cents into this particular statement.

Options management did exactly the same thing, saying they were going to give us a big raise NEXT year just give them the time. Well giving them the time would have made the card collection part of our organization drive fail thus killing the union vote. The time frame they were talking about the raise being approved was just over the year period that our organization drive began, cards are only good for one year from the date on the card. There never was any substantial raise and in fact the company continued the attacks on the pilots that had begun two years before. Promises of things in the future are nothing more then that empty promises. If anything that management says is not in a contract it does not exist. Trust in your own efforts and the power of a binding contract. everything else is BS.

 

[fischman]

Excuse the intrusion on your thread gents, I'm an Options pilot and just wanted to throw my 2 cents into this particular statement.

Options management did exactly the same thing, saying they were going to give us a big raise NEXT year just give them the time. Well giving them the time would have made the card collection part of our organization drive fail thus killing the union vote. The time frame they were talking about the raise being approved was just over the year period that our organization drive began, cards are only good for one year from the date on the card. There never was any substantial raise and in fact the company continued the attacks on the pilots that had begun two years before. Promises of things in the future are nothing more then that empty promises. If anything that management says is not in a contract it does not exist. Trust in your own efforts and the power of a binding contract. everything else is BS.

Exactly. If it isn't written, it doesn't exist.

 

[FraxJockey]

Fyi

Exactly. If it isn't written, it doesn't exist.

We DID get the info in writting BEFORE it was implemented in May of this year. Comparing Options management to Flexjet Management is apples an oranges. Flex management isn't trying to tank the company like at Options. I'm not trying to defend either side, just setting the record straight.

 

[notapilot]

There are many on the fence that really believe something special is going to be announced. Once the offering is announced around February, make sure there is plenty of paper in the fax machine at the IBT headquarters.

Over the next 2 months it would be great to have the 1108 do another mailout. This would allow those who have not yet sent in the cards to have one handy after they hear the announcement.

 

[SDCFI]

I'm one of those 0-4 year guys at Flex. I don't mind waiting until May for the improvements to kick in, but they better be BIG. If I don't like what I see I'll be sending out two things: 1) Union card 2) Updated resume to Netjets. I sincerely don't think management is stalling regarding the fiscal year and such when it comes to pay/benefits, but I also agree there's no reason they can't open up new bases and improve the rest/work rules and number of days worked right now. The new TA at NJA notwithstanding we are still at the bottom of the pack when it comes to bases and rest periods (floating rest). That is unacceptable, and ironic since just about every VM reminds us how much we still need new pilots. How can you expect people to come here with mid-level pay and shoddy work rules?

 

[DirtyBeech]

I'm with you SDCFI. I'd like to stay here and let required increase in benefits and QOL take place. I'll give them until May for that (or February if they'll man up and announce all the improvements), but it needs to be significant. It would be so much better to be at a destination job than one who treats it's employees like it's a stepping stone outfit like the one I just left.

I'll wait. We'll see. All the voicemails let's you know that DG knows the natives are restless. If I get another $3 a day pay increase then I'll send in my resume to NJA's the same day.

 

[Inigo Montoya]

Why are so many people willing to "wait until may"? The company says it is for "budget reason." That is the biggest load of crap I have ever heard. Since when can a company not issue raises for "budget reasons?" Does NJ have to wait until the end of their fiscal year?

Dont buy into it! They can change the budget if they want to. Hell the government does it almost weekly.

Here's the real reason: Bonus checks for upper management will go bye bye if they have to change the budget.

 

[DirtyBeech]

Our government is several trillion in the hole, because they do whatever they want with the budget. Bad example. I'll wait, because that's when the new fiscal year starts at Flex. It's no different than saying the new pay grade starts January 1st at any other company. I'd like it to happen now, but that's not going to happen, and getting the union to set up shop will only delay things by a number of years. The best thing that could happen would be to lock in the new benefits when they come out, and have the union start setting up shop the next day.

 

[Inigo Montoya]

It's no different than saying the new pay grade starts January 1st at any other company.

I've never known another airline to do that. do you know of one? its not normal, and we should not put up with it.

 

[DirtyBeech]

We're not an airline, and in case you haven't noticed, Bombardier/Flex doesn't do business like everybody else. It's frustrating as hell sometimes, I know, but that's how they do it. You can either wait for May or wait for several years while a union gets it's act together. I'll wait til May. Until then all this moaning is all Sound and no Fury.

I would like some of the non monetary QOL changes to take place before May, and that is doable.

 

[fischman]

I'm one of those 0-4 year guys at Flex. I don't mind waiting until May for the improvements to kick in, but they better be BIG. If I don't like what I see I'll be sending out two things: 1) Union card 2) Updated resume to Netjets. I sincerely don't think management is stalling regarding the fiscal year and such when it comes to pay/benefits, but I also agree there's no reason they can't open up new bases and improve the rest/work rules and number of days worked right now. The new TA at NJA notwithstanding we are still at the bottom of the pack when it comes to bases and rest periods (floating rest). That is unacceptable, and ironic since just about every VM reminds us how much we still need new pilots. How can you expect people to come here with mid-level pay and shoddy work rules?

Huh. I wonder what Googster would have to say about that...

 

[Ultra Grump]

I'm one of those 0-4 year guys at Flex. I don't mind waiting until May for the improvements to kick in, but they better be BIG. If I don't like what I see I'll be sending out two things: 1) Union card 2) Updated resume to Netjets.

I would suggest sending the resume to NJA now to get the ball rolling, since it's pretty unlikely you would get an interview before May, anyway. There is also going to be a FLOOD of resumes if/when the IBB passes. Better to be ahead of the wave than following it in.

 

[bailey3083]

I'm with you SDCFI. I'd like to stay here and let required increase in benefits and QOL take place. I'll give them until May for that (or February if they'll man up and announce all the improvements), but it needs to be significant. It would be so much better to be at a destination job than one who treats it's employees like it's a stepping stone outfit like the one I just left.

I'll wait. We'll see. All the voicemails let's you know that DG knows the natives are restless. If I get another $3 a day pay increase then I'll send in my resume to NJA's the same day.

Yes we at Flex understand that we are under budget from Montreal and any increases has to come thru Montreal but this is just not about money. Opening Bases, Improving Scheduling, Improving work rules, Improving Crew Meals, Improving rest rules are all things that DG and MM can go ahead and now start to work with the CAB to fix and improve but instead we are getting everyone will have to wait. WHY?
The other problem at Flex is that there is a huge gap between hiring. It has just been in the last 2 years that they have hired large numbers so I believe that management's thoughts are We have this percentage of people under 2 years who will have to pay and this number of people over 7 years who have to much to lose so if we lose this percentage of the 2-4 yr people it will no effect us that badly so lets throw crumbs to those who think Flex is the sh*t, tell them to drink more Kool Aid then tell those 2-4 yrs to go to hell. ( See working in management during college did me well.LOL)

 

[CL300Pilot]

Bailey,

Do I hear a hint of you leaning toward the union now?

The CAB has been working on the same issues long before either you or I got hired here with no results. I don't see Montreal letting DG or MM or anyone else for that matter do much on the compensation side. I don't know which way this union thing is going to go, but I do know to strap on the boots, because I think it is about to get very interesting over the next several months.

Yes we at Flex understand that we are under budget from Montreal and any increases has to come thru Montreal but this is just not about money. Opening Bases, Improving Scheduling, Improving work rules, Improving Crew Meals, Improving rest rules are all things that DG and MM can go ahead and now start to work with the CAB to fix and improve but instead we are getting everyone will have to wait. WHY?
The other problem at Flex is that there is a huge gap between hiring. It has just been in the last 2 years that they have hired large numbers so I believe that management's thoughts are We have this percentage of people under 2 years who will have to pay and this number of people over 7 years who have to much to lose so if we lose this percentage of the 2-4 yr people it will no effect us that badly so lets throw crumbs to those who think Flex is the sh*t, tell them to drink more Kool Aid then tell those 2-4 yrs to go to hell. ( See working in management during college did me well.LOL)

 

[dime line]

because I think it is about to get very interesting over the next several months.

Guys its a long road doing this contract, I just wish we did it long before this at FLOPS, but it will be well worth it. Just seeing what management is capable of doing before the union and especially after, makes me thankfull i'm paying dues to have somebody in my court, while the company has its "kangaroo court"