FlexJet / Flight Options / SkyJet

[jetwash]

Well just my guess but if DAC came to Bombardier as said "we want to buy a few billion dollars worth of airplanes, but you have to also give us flexjet..." That might be a pretty good deal for Bombardier. And even though we were making them money, it would have been 10s of millions at best. Thats pocket change for Bombardier.

I think it was NetJets.

They told Raytheon to get rid of Travel air if they want NJ to buy the Horizons.
Then they told Cessna to get rid of Citation Air if they wanted any more CX , Latitude sales.
Then the tell Bombardier to get rid of Flex if they want to sell NJ Globals.

Being tied to a manufacture was at one time a plus, now it looks like it became a minus.

 

[TWA 2 ASA FO]

TWA is right. Flex is a good business model and is very profitable. Makes me wonder why Bombardier ever sold us.

The are hurting for cash. Current employees at BBD say they are in major cost containment mode.

The Lear 85 and C-Series are 2+ billion into development either zero revenue. They are years behind schedule.

They needed the money.

 

[Dirty Squirrel]

TWA is right. Flex is a good business model and is very profitable. Makes me wonder why Bombardier ever sold us.

Bombardier sold Flexjet at a very profitable time. They also sold the Recreational Products division years ago at a peak time as well. Bombardier, at one time, was diversifying. For the last decade or so, they have been consolidating and narrowing their core business to planes and trains.

Like the old saying, "buy low sell high".

 

[Dirty Squirrel]

The are hurting for cash. Current employees at BBD say they are in major cost containment mode.

The Lear 85 and C-Series are 2+ billion into development either zero revenue. They are years behind schedule.

They needed the money.

That too.

 

[The Architect]

Flexjet is in DAC's Portfolio

All of you keep forgetting the other investors. DAC is one of the partners. The financial strength comes from the FJ owners who made this buyout possible.

DAC is the parent company. DAC, then Epic, then Onesky, then Flight Options and Flexjet.

Partners?

The financial capital comes from DAC. Don't be fooled about who is in control.

"Directional Aviation Capital Adds Flexjet to Portfolio of Private Aviation Companies."

 

[V1 Rotate]

DAC is the parent company. DAC, then Epic, then Onesky, then Flight Options and Flexjet.

Partners?

The financial capital comes from DAC. Don't be fooled about who is in control.

"Directional Aviation Capital Adds Flexjet to Portfolio of Private Aviation Companies."

At least two of the major investors are major clients with Flexjet. It's my understanding that's where the majority of the $5+ billion came from.

 

[Praetorian]

Well just my guess but if DAC came to Bombardier as said "we want to buy a few billion dollars worth of airplanes, but you have to also give us flexjet..." That might be a pretty good deal for Bombardier. And even though we were making them money, it would have been 10s of millions at best. Thats pocket change for Bombardier.

Wondering why you believe Flex was profitable under Bombardier? Are there financials available somewhere on this? After all, historically companies have often portrayed themselves as "profitable" even right up until bankruptcy.

I think this is particularly true in our industry which is so driven by brand cachet.

 

[Frac Cap]

Hey, wasn't ENRON doing great and was an investment quality stock up until the end?

 

[Seahawk]

DAC is the parent company. DAC, then Epic, then Onesky, then Flight Options and Flexjet.

Partners?

The financial capital comes from DAC. Don't be fooled about who is in control.

"Directional Aviation Capital Adds Flexjet to Portfolio of Private Aviation Companies."

Well yeah, DAC is parent company of the mentioned daughter companies. All LLC's with there own president's running their own company and self generating their own income...sister!

 

[TWA 2 ASA FO]

Wondering why you believe Flex was profitable under Bombardier? Are there financials available somewhere on this? After all, historically companies have often portrayed themselves as "profitable" even right up until bankruptcy.

I think this is particularly true in our industry which is so driven by brand cachet.

FJs profit/loss was always given as a part of Bombardier and also separately.

Not sure if this information was split in the public documents.

Are you trying to convince people that FJ wasn't profitable so if there is a pilot merger that would somehow favor FO?

FJ maintained profitability even during the downturn of 2008. It was tight, but each year we made a profit.

Instead of you telling us to prove we were profitable, why don't you show some proof that we weren't.

 

[el raton]

If I remember right, on the day the aquisition was announced, KR himself said Flex was the "first profitable company he ever acquired".

 

[TWA 2 ASA FO]

If I remember right, on the day the aquisition was announced, KR himself said Flex was the "first profitable company he ever acquired".

Forgot about that. He also said they weren't used to purchasing a company and not having to make major changes since, but that is where they found themselves since what we were doing was obviously working. Maybe another reason he purchased FJ was to capture some quality management to run his fractional business model.

One if the metrics of our annual bonus plan was EBIT. Last year we had the largest bonus % that we have received since I have been here. Not only did we meet our goals, we overachieved in most categories.

Do you guys get given yearly financial performance numbers at FO?

 

[jonjuan]

FJs profit/loss was always given as a part of Bombardier and also separately.

Nope. You won't find it in any filings, because it was never there.

 

[TWA 2 ASA FO]

Nope. You won't find it in any filings, because it was never there.

Hence why I said I wasn't sure if it was split in the public documents.

Internally it was split.

 

[jonjuan]

Hence why I said I wasn't sure if it was split in the public documents.

Internally it was split.

Lol-sure it was. If it was to you, it's public.

 

[Praetorian]

FJs profit/loss was always given as a part of Bombardier and also separately.

Not sure if this information was split in the public documents.
Are you trying to convince people that FJ wasn't profitable so if there is a pilot merger that would somehow favor FO?

FJ maintained profitability even during the downturn of 2008. It was tight, but each year we made a profit.

Instead of you telling us to prove we were profitable, why don't you show some proof that we weren't.

Not trying to convince anyone of anything. Just trying to figure out why you believe Flex was profitable. Besides as I've said many times, I think we will all either sink or swim together. In other words this situation will either help or harm both pilot groups equally depending on what we ultimately decide as a combined group.

Did you see the books, or any other documents, or are just relying on what you've been told and are repeating it on here?

You mentioned in another post the you had "met goals". How do you know you met them and for that matter how do you know you didn't greatly exceed them? Are pilots able to see the raw data these bonuses are predicated on, or are you also taking senior managements' word for this as well?

See if you had a CBA it would likely contain information sharing provisions like ours does. Then your representatives would be able to do an audit and verify what the pilots were told was true. Not that management would ever lie :erm:

 

[BlueNose]

See if you had a CBA it would likely contain information sharing provisions like ours does. Then your representatives would be able to do an audit and verify what the pilots were told was true. Not that management would ever lie :erm:

Maybe their CBA could contain a revenue sharing section like the one 1108 negotiated for us at Options. How's that working out?

 

[el raton]

Can anyone prove Flex wasn't profitable?

 

[Praetorian]

Maybe their CBA could contain a revenue sharing section like the one 1108 negotiated for us at Options. How's that working out?

Hey it's what was negotiated in the depths of the recession. But at least it's audited by the union quarterly. Would you prefer the alternative, with everything else that goes along with it?

 

[Praetorian]

Can anyone prove Flex wasn't profitable?

Logic 101

The burden of proof lies with the person or persons who are making the claim, and is not upon anyone else to disprove. The inability, to disprove a claim does not render that claim valid.

Example: You can't prove that space aliens don't exist, so they must be out there.