FlexJet / Flight Options / SkyJet

[V1 Rotate]

You guys have gotten pay raises and bonuses, have your office people also been compensated with raises and bonuses?

To let you know how much Ricci thinks of his office people in CGF, that probably truly work the hardest for this company, haven't seen a dime of an increase in over 7 yrs.

Payraises for the office folk I can't speak of but, yes, they are also included in the bonus incentive plan minus the fuel conservation portion of the formula. And as far as raises go, we haven't gotten a "true" raise since '09 (maybe or whenever it was???) with the exception of our yearly, minuscule seniority bumps.

 

[chief9404]

You guys have gotten pay raises and bonuses, have your office people also been compensated with raises and bonuses?

To let you know how much Ricci thinks of his office people in CGF, that probably truly work the hardest for this company, haven't seen a dime of an increase in over 7 yrs.

Or a 401k match. It's pathetic.

 

[Seahawk]

Only reason any of that is because Ricci wants the union gone. Make Flex bigger and Options smaller for the upcoming vote. Were so short staffed it's not funny but no way are they going to bring back any Options furloughees until after the Union vote. Then the fun begins for all you Flex guys. If our contract is so bad then why does Ricci want it gone so bad. Because without it he can do whatever he wants. And he will. I've worked for 2 Ricci companies and there both the same. Minimum work force with maximum work. I flew with a moron last week bragging to me that he flew 12 days in a row. I'm sure our furloughees appreciate that. Only thing keeping me sane right now is the contract and the ability to say no with out recourse when needed. Just finished another fun filled 7 day tour with 44.4 hours in seven days, 4 10 in 24 warnings and 2 fatigue calls. But it sucks. I got in zero workouts this week as just every might was go to the hotel for 10 or 11 hours. And no this isn't the unions fault. It's nasty management team that won't admit we are severely understaffed and too few aircraft . The Flex pilots really should be concerned because it is not Riccis style to run a company with excess resources. I have no idea what the Flex crew ratio is but I'm guessing ours is around 4 pilots per airplane and that includes management pilots and pilots on medical leaves. It's going to be a sad day if the Union is voted off the property as if that happens when you guys realize the mistake it will take 5 to 7 years to ever get representation back. Bombardier is gone pele. Skyjet is going to eventually be run just like very other Ricci company. If you think otherwise your being a fool. Really look at Riccis track record. That's your future. Your past is gone.[/QUOTE]





Well how about the name calling. No you the fool sister!

 

[FracMonkey]

General pilot feeling......Bombardier was hemorrhaging cash because of all of the delays in the C-Series and the Lear 85 and we were quick cash. Look at the 1700 people Bombardier has furloughed since the beginning of the year. That smells of cash flow issues.

What we were told my managment......Bombardier wanted to get back to its roots of building and selling aircraft and trains and being in the fractional business was not their core business.

My personal guess....a little of both of the above. That being said, I am also glad we are away from Bombardier as I feel they were keeping us from growing. Which way our two companies go is anyones guess. I just hope that we all can get through this relatively unscathed and work together as one. Flexjet has a lot of great pilots as I am sure Options does as well.

Exactly the same thing that was heard and felt when Raytheon divested themselves of Travel Air years ago. KR is really good at picking up other's cast offs. I'm neither pro nor anti union, but understand that things will inevitably change for all involved.

The question that each pilot needs to answer for themselves is whether they want a say in their future through representation or if they trust management enough to make those decisions for them. That is a personal decision for each individual to make in their own time.

Keep in mind these are my opinions, they are offered free of charge and are probably worth exactly what you paid for them!

 

[Club ORD FO]

Only reason any of that is because Ricci wants the union gone. Make Flex bigger and Options smaller for the upcoming vote. Were so short staffed it's not funny but no way are they going to bring back any Options furloughees until after the Union vote. Then the fun begins for all you Flex guys. .

But don't furloughed pilots get to vote if/when we go to a representation vote? If so then it doesn't matter if they are brought back or not.

 

[ThePilotsFriend]

To all of the hard working employees of Flight Options & FlexJet,

I would like to give each of you something to think about, something for consideration. There is an individual that has been a long time personal friend of KR. This person not only had a close friendship, so he thought, but was also a business partner. As the years past this person always cared for the pilots and employees. This person put out specific email communications on numerous occasions expressing gratitude and thanks to the Flight Option crews. This person always felt an ethical bond between the crews and there family's well being. When KR informed this person of his true business model, which most certainly would harm crew members and there family's, just to give himself more wealth out of egotistical greed, this person expressed his opposition and informed KR that his plan was unethical. After a long friendship and also being business partners KR fired this person without hesitation. It wasn't a yelling match but not to far from it. If KR can do such a thing to someone like this person just think what he will do to you the FlexJet pilot to whom he has no bonds. You, the FlexJet line pilot are at a disadvantage due to not having educated yourself when it comes to what kind of person your now dealing with. Do not be short-sided out of ignorance. Take the time to educate yourself about KR and his previous treatment of employees and his managment philosophy. A creative google search along with reading KR book, ( managment by trust ), should take care of your educational needs. Money is all that matters even over friendship and the ethical treatment of people. This particular person has taken risk to get this information out, he took these risk because of strong ethical convictions. The FlexJet crews and there family's will suffer with the current business model in place. Please don't be foolish and believe for one second that KR will keep you status quo any longer than necessary than needed. The labor is cheaper at Flight Options, you the FlexJet pilots are going to end up without work. KR fully intends to move the flying over to Flight Options. You cannot be more forward than this, this person has looked out for all crew members to the best of his ability, both Flight Options & FlexJet alike. Do yourself and your family a favor, stick together. Flight Options & FlexJet crew members coming together as one solid force is the only way to position yourself to battle corporate greed. My wish is for all crew members to come out unscathed. As crew members it's your only chance of surviving this situation.

I will always be,

The Pilots Friend

 

[Club ORD FO]

To all of the hard working employees of Flight Options & FlexJet,

I would like to give each of you something to think about, something for consideration. There is an individual that has been a long time personal friend of KR. This person not only had a close friendship, so he thought, but was also a business partner. As the years past this person always cared for the pilots and employees. This person put out specific email communications on numerous occasions expressing gratitude and thanks to the Flight Option crews. This person always felt an ethical bond between the crews and there family's well being. When KR informed this person of his true business model, which most certainly would harm crew members and there family's, just to give himself more wealth out of egotistical greed, this person expressed his opposition and informed KR that his plan was unethical. After a long friendship and also being business partners KR fired this person without hesitation. It wasn't a yelling match but not to far from it. If KR can do such a thing to someone like this person just think what he will do to you the FlexJet pilot to whom he has no bonds. You, the FlexJet line pilot are at a disadvantage due to not having educated yourself when it comes to what kind of person your now dealing with. Do not be short-sided out of ignorance. Take the time to educate yourself about KR and his previous treatment of employees and his managment philosophy. A creative google search along with reading KR book, ( managment by trust ), should take care of your educational needs. Money is all that matters even over friendship and the ethical treatment of people. This particular person has taken risk to get this information out, he took these risk because of strong ethical convictions. The FlexJet crews and there family's will suffer with the current business model in place. Please don't be foolish and believe for one second that KR will keep you status quo any longer than necessary than needed. The labor is cheaper at Flight Options, you the FlexJet pilots are going to end up without work. KR fully intends to move the flying over to Flight Options. You cannot be more forward than this, this person has looked out for all crew members to the best of his ability, both Flight Options & FlexJet alike. Do yourself and your family a favor, stick together. Flight Options & FlexJet crew members coming together as one solid force is the only way to position yourself to battle corporate greed. My wish is for all crew members to come out unscathed. As crew members it's your only chance of surviving this situation.

I will always be,

The Pilots Friend

This is almost the exact opposite if the message you posted a few days ago. On that one you said good things are coming and to just hang and you implied that going non union was better for the options pilots. Now you're saying the opposite?

 

[Mini Cooper]

This is very important point, and an event that occurred just recently. Many of us are aware of this mans termination. I find it extremely sad and fairly shocking.

I saw the very same situation at a different company, where all the owner cared about was his family and himself. Men that had been early adulthood friends turned 23-24 year employees, were fired on a whim. Being an "at will" employee with these kind of men is a very great risk. We all have many contracts in life, i.e. mortgages, loans for vehicles, loans for toys, marriage licenses are contracts (so to speak) with our wives, etc., etc. A contract for employment is the only thing that protects your ability to fulfill these other obligations.

Back to the firing, there was another man just a few years ago, I believe it was under the previous management although, that was fired from upper management because he too was "pilot friendly". He was a man of great ethics and did a great job in his position. His professionalism and knowledge made FLOPS the standard bearer in training and dealings with the FAA.

It brings to mind another highly respected man that shortly after the merger of RTA and FLOPS, was pushed out for highly ethical behavior. He became frustrated by way this company was being run. This was under the current management group before they were pushed out by Raytheon. He is a great leader and respected by all.

I must repeat that being an " at will" with this group is not a good option. Ask the many pilots that have been awarded the CGF1 arrival for something untrue, or didn't happen, or was unfounded, only to be saved by the union contract and considerable bargaining power.

To all of the hard working employees of Flight Options & FlexJet,

I would like to give each of you something to think about, something for consideration. There is an individual that has been a long time personal friend of KR. This person not only had a close friendship, so he thought, but was also a business partner. As the years past this person always cared for the pilots and employees. This person put out specific email communications on numerous occasions expressing gratitude and thanks to the Flight Option crews. This person always felt an ethical bond between the crews and there family's well being. When KR informed this person of his true business model, which most certainly would harm crew members and there family's, just to give himself more wealth out of egotistical greed, this person expressed his opposition and informed KR that his plan was unethical. After a long friendship and also being business partners KR fired this person without hesitation. It wasn't a yelling match but not to far from it. If KR can do such a thing to someone like this person just think what he will do to you the FlexJet pilot to whom he has no bonds. You, the FlexJet line pilot are at a disadvantage due to not having educated yourself when it comes to what kind of person your now dealing with. Do not be short-sided out of ignorance. Take the time to educate yourself about KR and his previous treatment of employees and his managment philosophy. A creative google search along with reading KR book, ( managment by trust ), should take care of your educational needs. Money is all that matters even over friendship and the ethical treatment of people. This particular person has taken risk to get this information out, he took these risk because of strong ethical convictions. The FlexJet crews and there family's will suffer with the current business model in place. Please don't be foolish and believe for one second that KR will keep you status quo any longer than necessary than needed. The labor is cheaper at Flight Options, you the FlexJet pilots are going to end up without work. KR fully intends to move the flying over to Flight Options. You cannot be more forward than this, this person has looked out for all crew members to the best of his ability, both Flight Options & FlexJet alike. Do yourself and your family a favor, stick together. Flight Options & FlexJet crew members coming together as one solid force is the only way to position yourself to battle corporate greed. My wish is for all crew members to come out unscathed. As crew members it's your only chance of surviving this situation.

I will always be,

The Pilots Friend

 

[gret]

To all of the hard working employees of Flight Options & FlexJet,

I would like to give each of you something to think about, something for consideration. There is an individual that has been a long time personal friend of KR. This person not only had a close friendship, so he thought, but was also a business partner. As the years past this person always cared for the pilots and employees. This person put out specific email communications on numerous occasions expressing gratitude and thanks to the Flight Option crews. This person always felt an ethical bond between the crews and there family's well being. When KR informed this person of his true business model, which most certainly would harm crew members and there family's, just to give himself more wealth out of egotistical greed, this person expressed his opposition and informed KR that his plan was unethical. After a long friendship and also being business partners KR fired this person without hesitation. It wasn't a yelling match but not to far from it. If KR can do such a thing to someone like this person just think what he will do to you the FlexJet pilot to whom he has no bonds. You, the FlexJet line pilot are at a disadvantage due to not having educated yourself when it comes to what kind of person your now dealing with. Do not be short-sided out of ignorance. Take the time to educate yourself about KR and his previous treatment of employees and his managment philosophy. A creative google search along with reading KR book, ( managment by trust ), should take care of your educational needs. Money is all that matters even over friendship and the ethical treatment of people. This particular person has taken risk to get this information out, he took these risk because of strong ethical convictions. The FlexJet crews and there family's will suffer with the current business model in place. Please don't be foolish and believe for one second that KR will keep you status quo any longer than necessary than needed. The labor is cheaper at Flight Options, you the FlexJet pilots are going to end up without work. KR fully intends to move the flying over to Flight Options. You cannot be more forward than this, this person has looked out for all crew members to the best of his ability, both Flight Options & FlexJet alike. Do yourself and your family a favor, stick together. Flight Options & FlexJet crew members coming together as one solid force is the only way to position yourself to battle corporate greed. My wish is for all crew members to come out unscathed. As crew members it's your only chance of surviving this situation.

I will always be,

The Pilots Friend

Can you at least write this garbage using paragraphs?

 

[Mini Cooper]

You guys at FLOPs are so beaten up and blinded by the fact that a company, an aviation company at that, could ever be profitable and treat it's employees the way you guys wish you could be treated. I'm not saying it's been perfect, by no means. When I came here from the airlines, I couldn't believe the difference in the mentality and the way I was treated. People seemed to get along. There was a genuine concern for the company and most everyone wanted to see Flexjet succeed and prosper. And still, after all these years, I know of no one who truly wants to see this place burn down. I'm sure there are a few that feel that way and I could probably narrow it down to those few but overall it's not like that.

Only a group of beaten down employees would try to convince the employees of another company who is succeeding that their leadership are a bunch of liars. No matter how many good stories we provide, you're going to find fault. There's no pleasing you all. We just received a 10% bonus, brought back all of our furloughees and then some, but yet we're probably losing money, we were never profitable and our leadership are nothing more than a bunch of liars. Do I have that about right?

Seriously gullible and uninformed...

 

[Mini Cooper]

Can you at least write this garbage using paragraphs?

A very productive statement. Did you get the point?

 

[pilot1996]

It appears, in the near future, Flight Options pilots will be offered the opportunity to join the Flexjet seniority list. These pilots will essentially be treated as new hires and move to the bottom of the Flexjet seniority list. However, on the plus side, they will move to Flexjet's higher pay scale and improved benefits package; i.e. 401K matching.
Flexjet has approximately 320 pilots, so if you are number 320 or below on Flight Options seniority list, why would you not jump at the opportunity to earn more money and better benefits while essentially maintaining a similar seniority number at Flexjet.

Additional motivation will be the sooner you join Flexjet, the higher you will be on Flexjet's seniority list. In other words, the first few Flight Options pilots to accept the offer could possibly wind up with the other 400 Flight Option pilots below them on the new seniority list.

The obvious thought is, "The Union" will never allow this to happen. Well let's think about that for a moment. If, just 60 to 80, Flight Options pilots decide to come to Flexjet and receive the higher salary and improved benefits the union will be in an unenviable position. If they ask for a determination of single carrier status, any reasonable person/judge would say "Yes" they are a single carrier. Heck, there will be Flexjet Challenger 300 pilots flying Flight Option planes/trips, and the 60 to 80 Flight Option pilots mentioned above will be on the Flexjet seniority list, but still flying their same Flight Options equipment.

So after it is determined we are a single carrier, the next step would be a vote for representation. Pilots on the Flexjet seniority list ( with higher salaries,and improved benefits) would now likely out number the unionized Flight Options pilots. I believe at that point a reasonable person would conclude the union would lose the vote.

It seems the union has a dilemma. Ask for single carrier status, win that decision, but then likely be voted out. Or standby and look impotent. It's tough for the union when the things you want for your pilots will soon be available to the Flight Option pilots by simply joining Flexjet.

 

[warlord19]

I have to wave the BS flag on The Pilot’s Amigo and Mini Pooper. Their posts come straight from the Harry Reed (or IBT) playbook on how to smear and belittle opponents. They post these inane ramblings about KR without any knowledge or proof, see what the reaction is, and then make up more BS…pretty disgusting and idiotic.

I think it’s safe to say that most Flex pilots can distinguish between BS and shoe polish.

WL

 

[Frac Cap]

Not to start an argument, but The Pilot's friend may have one point to his "inside info". Flops is already advertising and selling the CL 300 on their web page. So that does show where things may be headed. So just take all of the concrete info and make your own educated decision. There is just too much speculation on things we don't know. All this infighting is also pointless.

 

[el raton]

It appears, in the near future, Flight Options pilots will be offered the opportunity to join the Flexjet seniority list. These pilots will essentially be treated as new hires and move to the bottom of the Flexjet seniority list. However, on the plus side, they will move to Flexjet's higher pay scale and improved benefits package; i.e. 401K matching.
Flexjet has approximately 320 pilots, so if you are number 320 or below on Flight Options seniority list, why would you not jump at the opportunity to earn more money and better benefits while essentially maintaining a similar seniority number at Flexjet.

Additional motivation will be the sooner you join Flexjet, the higher you will be on Flexjet's seniority list. In other words, the first few Flight Options pilots to accept the offer could possibly wind up with the other 400 Flight Option pilots below them on the new seniority list.

The obvious thought is, "The Union" will never allow this to happen. Well let's think about that for a moment. If, just 60 to 80, Flight Options pilots decide to come to Flexjet and receive the higher salary and improved benefits the union will be in an unenviable position. If they ask for a determination of single carrier status, any reasonable person/judge would say "Yes" they are a single carrier. Heck, there will be Flexjet Challenger 300 pilots flying Flight Option planes/trips, and the 60 to 80 Flight Option pilots mentioned above will be on the Flexjet seniority list, but still flying their same Flight Options equipment.

So after it is determined we are a single carrier, the next step would be a vote for representation. Pilots on the Flexjet seniority list ( with higher salaries,and improved benefits) would now likely out number the unionized Flight Options pilots. I believe at that point a reasonable person would conclude the union would lose the vote.

It seems the union has a dilemma. Ask for single carrier status, win that decision, but then likely be voted out. Or standby and look impotent. It's tough for the union when the things you want for your pilots will soon be available to the Flight Option pilots by simply joining Flexjet.

If FO pilots were to accept to migrate to Flex the way this tool is explaining, wouldn't that ruin a pilot's career and leave them with a reputation simular to a scab?

 

[wingsnthings]

If FO pilots were to accept to migrate to Flex the way this tool is explaining, wouldn't that ruin a pilot's career and leave them with a reputation simular to a scab?

No, they wouldn't be a scab. It would be like leaving an airline and coming to FJ. You are only a scab if you fly struck work.

That being said, I have not heard of this happening and doubt it is true....but weirder things have happened.

 

[jetwash]

This is almost the exact opposite if the message you posted a few days ago. On that one you said good things are coming and to just hang and you implied that going non union was better for the options pilots. Now you're saying the opposite?

I too found his post confusing but, I did make some calls and confirmed the most important part, that being that KR got rid of his long time friend and business partner due to a question of ethics. CH was about the only pilot advocate in management who had any ethics and was respected by the pilots for that.

It may not be a big deal to the Flex pilots but, do you have any managers who will be willing to stand up to Kenn on behalf of the pilots if they had some ethical questions. Do you think that Diana will stand up for you now knowing how Kenn does away with anyone who has a backbone.

One thing is for sure, major changes will be coming to both pilot groups and I am not having a warm fuzzy feeling about what is coming down the pipe.

 

[Club ORD FO]

So in the last couple days we've had two new sign ups to flifo. One saying the flying will be transferred to options, one saying the options pilots will be transferred to flex.

 

[asdf]

I'm not sure a union will protect Flexjet Pilots from the previous scenario. As far as knowing what someone will or will not do is very difficult and hard to predict with accurancy. With that said, from a financial standpoint it does seem like a odd way to take apart a company, move all the flying slowly to the other company, why not just do it quick and get it over with. I wouldn't bet that the new management's intentions are to slowly take apart Flexjet as that does not seem sound to me. But who knows, maybe making sound decisions is not the goal.

 

[V1 Rotate]

From a money standpoint Flight Options pilots do work for lower wages than Flexjet pilots so whats to say KR will not just move the flying to Flight Options at the lower pay rate.

Because the investors invested in Flexjet, not FLOPs.