FlexJet / Flight Options / SkyJet

[ThePilotsFriend]

Well it's better news than not keeping any. Besides with a sustainable business model, which at this time Flexjet does not have, hence putting it in a bargain buy opportunity for Ken, there will actually be a reality of growth which over time could bring back more Flex pilots.

 

[ThePilotsFriend]

If ken had not stepped in and secured Flexjet it was going to be bad news, extremely bad news for all of the Flex pilots. This situation beats the alternative that was headed down the track with the old Flexjet ownership.

 

[Club ORD FO]

I'm confused about what your motives are (you are, after all, a new user as of just now). You're implying that the options pilots should vote non union because they will see growth, but you've just told every flex pilot to vote pro union because our jobs are in danger.

And I'm not buying that were headed for bad news. We have long been operationally profitable (while options has not been) and we've had nothing but increasing numbers recently.

 

[jetwash]

You call keeping 150 of the 350 flex pilots "good news"?

Don't fall for the troll, its after midnight and someone had a few too many.

 

[ThePilotsFriend]

You really think that Options has not been profitable? We had the ability to buy Flex. You really think Flex would tell the truth about being on there way out?

 

[Club ORD FO]

You really think that Options has not been profitable? We had the ability to buy Flex. You really think Flex would tell the truth about being on there way out?

Ugh. Options did not buy flex. Go read a press release and try again

 

[ThePilotsFriend]

DAC / One Sky
But trust me Ricci is at the top and Options is his baby, just ask anyone.
Guess you also believe everything that you read as we'll.

 

[Club ORD FO]

If you really are buddies with KR I would assume you know that not all the money came from DAC and that other investors are involved. But whatever, that's not important. Let me just sum up what you've told us:

1. You are calling KR (your friend) a liar because he told the flex employees that we will not see any more layoffs, and he has told us that we are going to grow and that good things are coming. However, you say we will see layoffs as our flying is transferred after the union is voted out.

2. You are therefor encouraging me and all flexjet pilots to vote pro-union because our jobs are in danger.

3. I should not believe everything I read.

Ok, thanks. I'll take your advice into consideration.

 

[X-rated]

Right... I believe Ricci's best bud joined FI and on his first post gave away all of Ken's diabolical plans. He says Ken's number one priority is getting rid of the union, and then he passes on information, that if taken seriously, would ensure that never happens. Ahem, Bull Siht! Weird that he happened to post it in an emotional thread where the FO pilots are trying to convince the Flex pilots to vote to keep the IBT. But, that's probably just a coincidence.

I guess Management isn't the only group that knows how to spread Fear, Uncertainty and Doubt. It's utterly and completely Disgraceful! Somebody needs to be taken out behind the woodshed for that little gem. It will be telling to see who does and doesn't have the class to denounce such tactics.

 

[gret]

If you really are buddies with KR I would assume you know that not all the money came from DAC and that other investors are involved. But whatever, that's not important. Let me just sum up what you've told us:

1. You are calling KR (your friend) a liar because he told the flex employees that we will not see any more layoffs, and he has told us that we are going to grow and that good things are coming. However, you say we will see layoffs as our flying is transferred after the union is voted out.

2. You are therefor encouraging me and all flexjet pilots to vote pro-union because our jobs are in danger.

3. I should not believe everything I read.

Ok, thanks. I'll take your advice into consideration.

You're dead right...something is very wrong here...and simply not believable in any way, shape, or form.

Somebody must think that a lot of others are really stupid.

 

[gret]

Right... I believe Ricci's best bud joined FI and on his first post gave away all of Ken's diabolical plans. He says Ken's number one priority is getting rid of the union, and then he passes on information, that if taken seriously, would ensure that never happens. Ahem, Bull Siht! Weird that he happened to post it in an emotional thread where the FO pilots are trying to convince the Flex pilots to vote to keep the IBT. But, that's probably just a coincidence.

I guess Management isn't the only group that knows how to spread Fear, Uncertainty and Doubt. It's utterly and completely Disgraceful! Somebody needs to be taken out behind the woodshed for that little gem. It will be telling to see who does and doesn't have the class to denounce such tactics.

The guy's a clown...a friend, or simply a business associate, would never go on a public message board and talk out of school....it is also doubtful than any CEO is going to discuss such matters with anyone, let alone someone who doesn't have skin in the game.

What's in it for the person who did the post...it would seem nothing other than to secure the union's ability to remain in place.

He can't even spell Ricci name right.

 

[el raton]

You really think that Options has not been profitable? We had the ability to buy Flex. You really think Flex would tell the truth about being on there way out?

"We"? You're an employee of dac?

 

[Frac Cap]

Well, in my opinion he could be a recently fired right hand man with the initials of C H. He was a very well respected top manager and one of K R's friends. He had the most integrity of them all and and the respect of the entire pilot group. That may have been his downfall because from what I heard he was let go because he was not onboard for some issues that would have compromised his moral integrity. He was very open with issues that effected the pilots when we were to talk to him one on one. I assume he still has our best interests at heart and wants to reassure us. He is a straight shooter and was the only one that always kept an open dialogue going with the pilot group without any BS. Maybe this is his way of trying to set things straight.

 

[squawk]

The guy's a clown...a friend, or simply a business associate, would never go on a public message board and talk out of school....it is also doubtful than any CEO is going to discuss such matters with anyone, let alone someone who doesn't have skin in the game.

What's in it for the person who did the post...it would seem nothing other than to secure the union's ability to remain in place.

He can't even spell Ricci name right.

KR is speaking with FJ crews as well, and is divulging info that is just as astonishing. After hearing the content of these conversations, I do not doubt that KR may have said that. Know this, he is saying the same type of things to FJ pilots, but usually how FO is going to fold and the flying turned over to FJ. What are we supposed to think about this type of leadership? We are a group of professionals who are trying to make an honest living for our families. If the tone and attitude in these threads is any clue, the divisive gossip and rumors seem to be working. As a countermeasure, I think we should be thinking in terms of the one thing we have in common and try to stand together.

 

[el raton]

Sounds like KR needs to direct more of his efforts in selling shares of aircraft. That will take care of the pay, qol and integration.

Besides, this discussion may be all for naught because of that faint sucking sound that's getting louder. That sound is the airlines who are going to suck any warm blooded pilot under the age of 50 into their realm of flying.

How will uncle KR deal with this?

 

[jetwash]

Well, in my opinion he could be a recently fired right hand man with the initials of C H. He was a very well respected top manager and one of K R's friends. He had the most integrity of them all and and the respect of the entire pilot group. That may have been his downfall because from what I heard he was let go because he was not onboard for some issues that would have compromised his moral integrity. He was very open with issues that effected the pilots when we were to talk to him one on one. I assume he still has our best interests at heart and wants to reassure us. He is a straight shooter and was the only one that always kept an open dialogue going with the pilot group without any BS. Maybe this is his way of trying to set things straight.

Are you talking about Ch..s Her....g ?

Didn't he go to DAC to work on the Flex-FO integration project.?
I hope your info is wrong.

He was about the last manager who understood what was going on and used common sense.
If he is gone, then there is nobody left in DAC and FO who cares about the rules and regs. God help us all if the union is voted out as well.

 

[Seahawk]

KR is speaking with FJ crews as well, and is divulging info that is just as astonishing. After hearing the content of these conversations, I do not doubt that KR may have said that. Know this, he is saying the same type of things to FJ pilots, but usually how FO is going to fold and the flying turned over to FJ. What are we supposed to think about this type of leadership? We are a group of professionals who are trying to make an honest living for our families. If the tone and attitude in these threads is any clue, the divisive gossip and rumors seem to be working. As a countermeasure, I think we should be thinking in terms of the one thing we have in common and try to stand together.

This is true. Why is the principal leader of DAC disclosing different bizarrow business plans in the cockpits of both companies. Until he follows through with what he says, I will not trust him. Not an exceptional way to gain the trust of a new daughter company is it? If he attempts to dissolve the culture at Flex, indeed we will go the route of representation in our own way. And I know what you are going to say. "I told you so". We have been down this road before. I don't think this is what his investors would like to see either. You have your IBT and we our employee contract. I think we should just keep it at that.

 

[slowtation capt]

Are you talking about Ch..s Her....g ?

Didn't he go to DAC to work on the Flex-FO integration project.?
I hope your info is wrong.

He was about the last manager who understood what was going on and used common sense.
If he is gone, then there is nobody left in DAC and FO who cares about the rules and regs. God help us all if the union is voted out as well.

He is no longer with DAC, after stepping up in a meeting to defend something that would have affected the pilots in a negative way, he was let go.

 

[slowtation capt]

To all that are concerned,

Let me just start by saying that I have known Ken Ricci personally for 18 years. I know him not only thru business but also friendship. I recently had a flight with him and a lengthy conversation about the situation at hand. I expressed to him my feelings about how the Flight Options pilots not being treated fairly in all that is going on. Without saying to much, let me say this. If your a flight options pilot just set back and be patient because this is going to be a good thing for you when it's all finished. Ken has a proven strategy that will secure the end of the union. This is going to take time, it's not going to happen overnight. It's important to know that the time it will take is necessary for the plan to work. Once the union is successfully voted out the flex jet contracts and flying will be shifted over to you the Flight Options pilots. Once 60% of the Flex clients have been shifted over to Flight Options Ken will start the recall process of the furloughed pilots, once again building the pilot force. The business strategy behind this is the lower cost of labor on the Flight Options side. I also talked to him about the low pay at Options and he assured me that he is going to give a fair pay increase that both improves the lifestyle of the Flight Options pilot and makes for a sustainable business model. Ken expressed that the current pay at Flexjet is not sustainable and was one of the main reasons he was able to acquire the company. Ken believes that once 60% of the Flex flying is being conducted on the Flight Options side, the Flexjet crews can be reduced, he did not explain how this would be carried out. Ken seemed to think that this would be a three year business model but at the end of that time 93% of all the flying would be accomplished with Flight Options pilots. I think it's fair to get a pay raise that will support healthy business survivability at the same time bringing new aircraft to the Flight Options pilots. Ken seems to think that the new business model can be sustained with about 675 total pilots. If you take all of the current Options pilots and bring back all the ones on furlough you will still have room to keep 150 or so Flex pilots which is good news.

The only correct with this statement

is;

Ken has a proven strategy that will secure the end of the union.

 

[Praetorian]

KR is speaking with FJ crews as well, and is divulging info that is just as astonishing. After hearing the content of these conversations, I do not doubt that KR may have said that. Know this, he is saying the same type of things to FJ pilots, but usually how FO is going to fold and the flying turned over to FJ. What are we supposed to think about this type of leadership? We are a group of professionals who are trying to make an honest living for our families. If the tone and attitude in these threads is any clue, the divisive gossip and rumors seem to be working. As a countermeasure, I think we should be thinking in terms of the one thing we have in common and try to stand together.

I thought is was BS when I first read it, but if your confirming that he is saying similar things to the FJ crews, that makes me wonder.

Maybe he tells the Flex crews one thing and the FO crews another. Classic whipsaw technique, he's trying to play the pilot groups against each other. We saw it before during the FO/TA merger.

 

[squawk]

If so, that type of unethical conduct is incompatible with the business culture of trust and friendship among all who are employed at Flexjet. That behavior is troublesome.

 

[TWA 2 ASA FO]

Well it's better news than not keeping any. Besides with a sustainable business model, which at this time Flexjet does not have, hence putting it in a bargain buy opportunity for Ken, there will actually be a reality of growth which over time could bring back more Flex pilots.

Right now FJ is as profitable as we have ever been. The reason DAC purchased us was because of our sustainable business model.

I am not sure who this joker is, but I doubt he works for FJ or FO.

 

[Brit]

TWA is right. Flex is a good business model and is very profitable. Makes me wonder why Bombardier ever sold us.

 

[ProFracPilot]

TWA is right. Flex is a good business model and is very profitable. Makes me wonder why Bombardier ever sold us.

It does make one wonder. What has your management told you?

Another thing I find interesting is that Bombardier obviously shared ALL of their financials with the pilots (and before you get your panties all in a wad there Tinkerbell - I realize BBDb is a publicly traded company and that certain financials are available to all...) and that everyone is cock-sure of their true P&L.

Was possessing an MBA one of the prerequisites to be hired as a pilot at Flex? [emoji53]

 

[Brit]

Was possessing an MBA one of the prerequisites to be hired as a pilot at Flex? [emoji53]

Yes. Did options just require a GED?

 

[ProFracPilot]

Yes. Did options just require a GED?

Ha! Good one, Brit.

No, seriously...

 

[Club ORD FO]

TWA is right. Flex is a good business model and is very profitable. Makes me wonder why Bombardier ever sold us.

Well just my guess but if DAC came to Bombardier as said "we want to buy a few billion dollars worth of airplanes, but you have to also give us flexjet..." That might be a pretty good deal for Bombardier. And even though we were making them money, it would have been 10s of millions at best. Thats pocket change for Bombardier.

 

[Brit]

Bombardier could have just as easily dumped us to NetJets when they purchased the Globals, too. It is what it is, tho. I just hope it works out for us all.

 

[squawk]

All of you keep forgetting the other investors. DAC is one of the partners. The financial strength comes from the FJ owners who made this buyout possible.

 

[jetwash]

Yes. Did options just require a GED?

Now that was a good one!!!

:laugh: