FlexJet / Flight Options / SkyJet

[DirtyBeech]

And what would the benefit be of calling for the vote? It's just as uncertain for them that the union would be accepted as it is for Flex pilots that it would be voted out. They would have to count on a significant number of furloughees to vote their way to outnumber the majority at Flex. Neither side wants to take that gamble.

 

[Jetstarr400]

1108 will delay vote

The 1108 doesn't want a vote on the single system. I don't think it would turn out the way they planned.

 

[flex*wife]

The problem is the union... The IBT looks more thugly and incompetent with each passing year in the fractional business. Pilots are chump change - a way to build revenue not their real focus.

I understand they were the only player willing to rake a risk with NJA once upon a time... But dudes that union sucks...

I want a union at Flexjet - always have. But the reality of it having to be the IBT? Yikes...

 

[Fresh Air]

The problem is the union... The IBT looks more thugly and incompetent with each passing year in the fractional business. Pilots are chump change - a way to build revenue not their real focus.

I understand they were the only player willing to rake a risk with NJA once upon a time... But dudes that union sucks...

I want a union at Flexjet - always have. But the reality of it having to be the IBT? Yikes...

Flex*wife,
Although we differ in opinion, I appreciate the way you make your points without the nastiness and gratuitous mud-slinging that is the norm here on FI. You have my respect, (not that it's worth anything).

I just haven't seen any "thugs" in my dealings with our union here at FO. On the rare occasion when I have needed to talk to someone in leadership or on a committee to get info or clarify a part of the CBA, I've always talked to good people like Mat S, Rick K, or Stephanie B, who are my fellow pilots and who spend a lot of their time doing unpaid work to try to make things better for our whole pilot group.

The terms "Teamsters" and "thugs" seem to be thrown around a lot (mostly by Options managers in employee meetings or anti-union folks here on FI), but the union has been on the property here since '06 now and I haven't seen any.....

I suppose since I'm a member in good standing of our pilots' union that makes me a "Teamster". But I don't think I'm a thug, Heck I haven't broken any kneecaps all week. Maybe caused a backache or two with crappy landings, but that's about it.

One last thing: Like most pilots, I tend to be conservative, and don't like the fact that a portion of my dues money goes to support liberal causes. And if another strong national union came along to represent us that didn't support such causes, I would switch in a heartbeat! But there aren't any, there just aren't. So I take the bad with the good, and support the people who are currently doing the best they can to support me.

 

[X-rated]

Flex*wife,
Although we differ in opinion, I appreciate the way you make your points without the nastiness and gratuitous mud-slinging that is the norm here on FI. You have my respect, (not that it's worth anything).

I just haven't seen any "thugs" in my dealings with our union here at FO. On the rare occasion when I have needed to talk to someone in leadership or on a committee to get info or clarify a part of the CBA, I've always talked to good people like Mat S, Rick K, or Stephanie B, who are my fellow pilots and who spend a lot of their time doing unpaid work to try to make things better for our whole pilot group.

The terms "Teamsters" and "thugs" seem to be thrown around a lot (mostly by Options managers in employee meetings or anti-union folks here on FI), but the union has been on the property here since '06 now and I haven't seen any.....

I suppose since I'm a member in good standing of our pilots' union that makes me a "Teamster". But I don't think I'm a thug, Heck I haven't broken any kneecaps all week. Maybe caused a backache or two with crappy landings, but that's about it.

One last thing: Like most pilots, I tend to be conservative, and don't like the fact that a portion of my dues money goes to support liberal causes. And if another strong national union came along to represent us that didn't support such causes, I would switch in a heartbeat! But there aren't any, there just aren't. So I take the bad with the good, and support the people who are currently doing the best they can to support me.

Excellent post, and a well reasoned argument in favor of the union. Most of the union supporters on this board do far more to antagonize moderates than to attract their support. While I understand their strong opinions, the ultra union supporters on here do far more damage to their own cause than union busters like B-19 ever could. It seems to me, despite their calls to put the group above the individual, many of them actually care far less about what the entire pilot group wants than perpetuating their view of what is best. Clear, unemotional insight like yours is far more compelling.

 

[Ludicrous Speed]

Flex*wife - Last week, I was called a union stomper. This week, its thugly. Hmmm. You know if I wanted this much abuse and name calling, I'd call up my ex girl-friend - she had that stuff down pat.

At the Department of Labor website, the union's income - along with every other union - is made public. When you research the numbers, you'll see the IBT is not getting rich off us.

Tossing around vague insults like thugly or incompetent or sucks - my response, is to ask, "How?" Not talking about some of the anonymous posts here. I'm talking specifics: What did the IBT or the 1108 do that was thugly?

Look, I applaud that you're thinking about unions and that you want a union at FlexJet, but you've got this misplaced image of who we are. Maybe 90% of the union work is done by the pilots. The other 10% is done by the lawyers. Not some suit from Jersey or Detroit or Washington. Us. No one here's denying the history of unions in the U.S., but I can point to politicians & judges & executives & religious clerics that have had more violence and corruption. If you ever talk with the leaders of the 1108, you'll see they're the complete opposite of a union crony. Or a union thug. They're pilots, working at what amounts to a second job for the union.

By the way, it is a second job and it's not an easy one. Just like you bang your head on the wall because of your teenagers (or maybe I'm the only one who does that), so too do we wish some things could immediately change. But that's not reality, that's not the way it works.

The easy way is to let someone else handle all these issues and I guarantee Uncle will step up and volunteer his services. In some way, shape, or form, he'll say: "Look. You don't need this hassle. Leave the worry to us. It's easier. You just concentrate on flying. You don't need the headache of negotiating a contract - we already did that for you. And we'll protect you. Trust me. I even wrote a book about it."

But the hard work - having a say about your job and your life? It's all worth it.

 

[V1 Rotate]

Why doesn't 1108 petition the NMB, say tomorrow, and let's see what happens? We all know that if we were ruled to be a single carrier that the 1108 would be gone in a heartbeat. Whether you're pro or anti union, you've got to know that that would be the case.

 

[FR8DOG777]

Very thoughtful post. THE PILOTS ARE THE UNION WITH THE BACKING AND RESOURCES OF THE NATIONAL. The bottom line is this. Kenn is hoping you will help build his empire by attacking whats left of the playing field with an unfair advantage, i.e. our low wages, and your soon to be lower wages and decreased working conditions and qol on the road. So lets say netjets ceo negotiates a lower pay scale for those pilots to remain competitive in the market place. Where does it end? Lets all take a pragmatic approach to this and say wait a minute, we fly the richest people in the world around......safely, we fly three times as much as a private corporate pilot, we are away from our families for 190 days a year, we are not being offered any retirement for our dedication and sacrifices, and we are pushed to the limits of our physical capabilities. I can promise you in less than a year from now kenny gonna be gunning to lower your salaries. When he has you between a rock and a hard place and politely says through them glossy white veneers, it's my way or the highway.

 

[FR8DOG777]

Why doesn't 1108 petition the NMB, say tomorrow, and let's see what happens? We all know that if we were ruled to be a single carrier that the 1108 would be gone in a heartbeat. Whether you're pro or anti union, you've got to know that that would be the case.

I bet it would be closer than you think

 

[V1 Rotate]

I bet it would be closer than you think

Perhaps. Admittedly, my comment was based on my own pulse of what I hear from our guys and the Options guys I run across. But I also have a feeling that if 1108 thought for a minute that the tide was in their favor that they'd be out front encouraging their members to support them in their efforts for a single system. Just my thoughts. Not looking for a fight.