Flexjet Falls Short

[vixin]

Flexjet didnt fall short they never stepped upto the plate. This company lost a great opprotunity to improve employee management relations. Instead they just smacked us in the face and expected us to be happy about it. Thank you sir can I have another.

I for one will vote for a union and hope it comes soon. Management could have squashed that talk and they failed greatly. What a disappointment Flex has become and will be. I am working hard to get out like everyone I see on the road. You guys mention attrition was a concern well you just did NOTHING to stop it. Way to go Flex management!! Just when I thought you couldnt get any worse or be more cluless you prove me wrong. And to think I used to somewhat defend you. Not anymore this pilot is moving on.

 

[twincessna]

It would have been interesting to get all the pilots blood pressure readings after the meetings. I bet we would have all been off the scales.

 

[Necromonger]

Hello PW.

Dear pilot’s wife,

I see you decided to come out and post again. Yes, Flex’s response was sub par to put it nicely. We can see that all families involved are concerned.

We can’t just sit around and wait for May to get things rolling. Are you part of the delay tactic? Do you really think we should just hang out for the next 90 days and hope we actually see these raises?

Let me put your post in perspective. It is great to hear from you, but where do you really stand? This is a previous post of yours back in Oct. of 2004. It has been shortened, but I’m just wondering if you still feel the same way.

…. Something interesting happened the other day though. My husband was cleaning out his flight bag and found a union card slipped in one of his pockets. He has no idea who or when it was put in there, but apparently people are still trying to go that route. Though hopefully they are looking at what has been happening at Netjets and see that a union is not the answer to all their problems.

The schedule is still difficult. A seven on seven off would be sooo much better, but they do not offer that now.

As I said before, Flexjet has been good to us. It still is not perfect (especially the schedule and slow upgrades). This can be a difficult job for those with a family. Our kids seem to suffer the most with their daddy being gone so much…..

What do you think of NJA’s union now? The push here has been going on for a while now. (Not just since the TA, as you can see) Don't plan on seeing your husband any more now than you did back then.

Heck, that card may have been put in there by me.

P.S. I’m not trying to slam ya… Just tryin’ to see where your coming from.

 

[XPGuy]

"slow upgrades" have nothing to do with the union, that is the company's growth. The only thing that can be controlled with upgrades in the union is making sure that it is done in seniority order - how many is decided purely by the company.

 

[Pilot's Wife]

XP Guy,
Thanks for clarifying my question on unions and freeze of pay. That actually was the intent of my post. I'm sure you all know (as Necromonger has already pointed out) I have generally come out not in favor of unions. Before I had children I worked for a fortune 500 company that was "controlled" by the union workforce. As a salaried person, I came in early and worked until late. The union employees out in the shops came in at 6:30 and by 10:30 had completed their union mandated quota for the day and ate and talked the rest of the day - they made more money than me, had better benefits, worked less and were not college educated - that's my background with unions. I am not ignorant enough to know that all unions are the same, but that situation does explain my hesitancy to jump on the union bandwagon at the first time I am not happy with the job.

With that said, I do think the situation at Flex has become more complex and the events in the last few months may warrant me to rethink my views on unions. The biggest disappointment, other than the actual compensation offerred, is the lack of honesty by management. I've already talked about the 221 days versus the 214 1/2 day issue, but the fact that they are not informing the pilot pool as a whole on what they are offerring and WHY they did not address the REAL issue for Flex pilots. They have created an atmosphere of mistrust. If they couldn't get Bombardier to agree to a 14 or 15 day work schedule, then tell us - be honest. The non answers to pilot's very valid questions, speak volumes. And why are most Flex pilots needing to find out what their own company is offerring them, on a public website. The meeting was 2 days ago, and still nothing official. Vixin made an excellent point also in their reasons for making the changes effective in May. Their reasoning makes no sense - they should have said "we are waiting until May because we want to save every penny we can and if we say its because of training the pilots might believe us".

My concern in my first post was not intended to sway anyone away from a union. I just would like to get that raise first before Flexjet freezes everything, if that is the direction the pilot base wants to go - it would be nice for me to not have to shop for furniture at used furniture stores and to not have to wait in line at a packed county health department for shots for my children. A little extra money first would be nice.

I suppport my husband fully in his job and whatever he decides to do with union issues is fine with me. That is the main reason I still read this board. That way I can be better informed, thus making him better informed, since you all know it is difficult when you work 15 hour work days 6 days in a row and then come home for 3 days, of which, if you have families, you spend the whole time reaquainting yourself with them.

I hope this explains my position better.

 

[Archie Bunker]

A more fair comparison would be to look at the BBJ payrates and compare them to Delta 737-800 rates.

Jesus, I'm quoting myself......that's just wrong.

Miles,

RE: my above quote...........I took the liberty of looking up Delta's 737-800 payrates on May 1, 2001 for a 12 year Captain. The hourly rate was $224.80, which roughly equates to $189K a year for a 70 hour reserve guarantee guy. For an 80 hour line holder, you can up the ante to approx $216K a year.

Things have changed in the last 5 years. Our newest payrates, effective Dec 15, 2005 have lowered the compensation level significantly. That same Captain now makes $148.92 an hour, which comes out to about $125K a year for the 70 hour reserve guarantee pilot, or approx $143K a year for an 80 hour a month line holder. This doesn't even take into consideration all of our work rule changes (all in mgmt's favor), increased costs for medical/dental bennies, and the list goes on and on.

I would love to compare these rates to the current BBJ rates at NJA. I have a funny feeling that NJA's rates are much higher than our current rates at Delta, and may even compare to the old rates of 2001. BTW, NJA's benefit package is head and shoulders above what we have at Delta now.

Can some NJA pilot please post the BBJ payrates for a 12 year Capt?

 

[XPGuy]

I don't work at NJA but I do have a copy of their contract.


An 10-year Captain on a BBJ (class 5) makes:

$193,671 on the normal schedule, $229,851 on the flex schedule.

11 and 11+ years, they get a 2.5% raise annually or COLA, whichever is less.


There is a difference between Delta and NJA, dude. Net Jets has what, 3 BBJ's? So we're talking what, 15 to 20 pilots this applies to?

 

[realityman]

XP- Very accurate point. Only a dozen or so pilots make the BBJ wages. Furthermore, for the BBJ program, it's time as captain in type, not time with the company. So that means our highest paid guys are somewhere around 4th or 5 th year pay. No one is anywhere near 10th year pay on the BBJ. That's not to say they aren't making good money, just that for the time being, you're looking at the wrong end of the BBJ payscale.

And one more time for everyone: The current CBA at NJA did NOT take 4 years to negotiate!! How many times has this been said already? Our previous MEC was in bed with the company, and so was the head of our previous local, hence the first three years were basically wasted time. When you factor in the time it took to oust the old MEC and elect the new MEC plus time to start our own local run by, and dedicated solely to us, the actual time to negotiate our current CBA was only a little over 8 months. That's pretty darn good for an industry leading contract!

 

[Archie Bunker]

I don't work at NJA but I do have a copy of their contract.


An 10-year Captain on a BBJ (class 5) makes:

$193,671 on the normal schedule, $229,851 on the flex schedule.

11 and 11+ years, they get a 2.5% raise annually or COLA, whichever is less.


There is a difference between Delta and NJA, dude. Net Jets has what, 3 BBJ's? So we're talking what, 15 to 20 pilots this applies to?

XP,

Thanks for posting those payrates.

I realize that very few pilots at NJA fly the BBJ. All I was trying to do was compare payrates for a like sized aircraft, and not compare 767 or MD-11 pay at Delta to Falcon or Gulfstream rates at NJA. The average Delta Capt on the 737-800 now probably has at least 15 years with the company. Folks like myself that were hired in 2000 might see 737-800 Capt in another 10 to 15 years. Not what I had hoped for when I signed on with Delta almost 6 years ago.

It looks like the current payrates at NJA for the BBJ are very comparable to Delta's 2001 payrates for the 737-800. That is great.

 

[Flyingdog1]

Has anyone found the 1/2 day payscales? Does this mean we get home at noon? If a whole day is 14 hours do we get paid from this half-day payscale if we work 7 hours? I'd like to see PBS schedule a half-day, it probably blow up. What BULL$HIT!!