Flexjet Falls Short

[pokeymon]

Well said Peter, ever think of running as new CAB president? You'd have my vote!

 

[theskyking]

Flex guys

I recently interviewed and was offered a class but after some deliberation, called and declined the class. I told Karen it was due to QOL issues and that if there had been more days off it would have worked. Honestly, in these days and times it is tough to turn down a job, but for my family it was the right thing to do. Now I'm just waiting hopefully for that NJA email inviting me to interview. Good luck, guys. I would like to have flown with you, but not under these circumstances.

 

[twincessna]

I think that is going to be alot of pilots. We have a link now on the BB for Independence pilots click on to set up interviews. I just wonder how many will actually do that given our choices of bases.

 

[Kermit_D_Frog]

Re: Independence guys, before any of you fellows //or anyone else// come to Flexible jet, think about what is going on here now. We are getting run around in circles both on the line, and in our compensation meetings. We know you need a paycheck, but if you are willing to stoop to this level at this time, you will not get much respect from many of us. Help us put the pressure on by turning down a job if offered. You won't like it here anyway. Half of our new hires quit in a year, do us all a favor and go to Netjets. When this debacle turns the corner, we will welcome you with open arms (or at least buy you a drink at the former worlds biggest pickle bar.) Thanks.

 

[flybeener1]

Peter Griffin,
All valid concerns but no sense debating. You can call me if want to talk more. I do have to correct some of your info though:
1. I am not a Standards Captain, though I was one. I'm just a Line Captain who flew 728 hours last year.
2. I am not priviledged to any more company information being the CAB Chairman than you. I got the pay scales from the an DG's Admin within 5 minutes of calling her. I did all the comparison's myself, not them. I'm sorry your having so much trouble.
3. Being an 8 yr Captain will not benefit me seeing as I'm still half way down on the list in my fleet.
4. Regardless of what side you think I'm on, I still have to work under the same schedule rules as you. I still bid, I still can't get what I want, and when I go on the road and leave my family - it gets harder everytime I do it. I'm not partial to anyone but them!

Good Luck,

beener

 

[mr brightside]

Kermit,

The number one complaint from all the crews (myself included) is the number of days worked per bid period. The only logistical way that can get better is for us to hire more people. Even if the crews want organized labor, the more people in that organization the better. I am not understanding your strategy.

 

[Necromonger]

I take Sunday off from this site, and miss all the Fireworks. D@mn!

I take Sunday off from this site, and miss all the Fireworks. D@mn!

Beaner…. You’re totin’ the company line. THAT is why you don’t mind us knowing who you are. We don’t have that luxury. Many of us do at least respect your attempt at EXPLAINING the new raise. But, when you have to go through the numbers, 221 to 214.5 to 202 to 195 to 184 it all gets very tedious. I think you’ve heard this before “Overtime disguised as pay.” When you add percentages to the mix, you get exactly what management wants.

F. U. D. (Once again, if you have to ask….)
Nice try though. ( Where's CautiousBelly when you need him)

Thanks, Griff, I couldn’t have said it better myself. No…… Really…… I couldn’t.
A very measured response to a cut and paste job.

Now back to post no. 1 on this thread:

Didn't get much. Little raise, basically one day less per bid period, small increase in per diem.

I see a union in the future.

I think twincessna got it. And, his post didn’t take as long to read.

Oh, Thanx for the hug, Art V.

 

[Peter_Griffin]

Clarification of your responsibility...

Hey Beener thanks for the corrections -- unlike flex management I only like to argue with the facts complete and clear, so I have no problem being corrected.

I still don't understand your purpose coming on here though if you feel there is "no sense debating" the issue.

It's late, I am tired and set to go out early, so I will keep it short. I just want to remind you (and other CAB members out there who might have forgotten) that your elected responsibility is to bring the pilot group's point of view and concerns to management, not to to be an apologist for management to the pilot group.

Beener, if even 51% of the pilot group is unhappy (and I bet the number is WAY above that) you need to listen up and present those facts and arguments to management NOT get on flightinfo and imply we are a bunch of whiny sissy girls who need to chin up or leave. Your job is to represent me not management.

See you on the road, I'll be the one b!tching and complaining. If that's not a way to protect my anonymity, I don't know what it is! I might be sour but I ain't stupid!

 

[netjetwife]

Flex guys

I recently interviewed and was offered a class but after some deliberation, called and declined the class. I told Karen it was due to QOL issues and that if there had been more days off it would have worked. Honestly, in these days and times it is tough to turn down a job, but for my family it was the right thing to do. Now I'm just waiting hopefully for that NJA email inviting me to interview. Good luck, guys. I would like to have flown with you, but not under these circumstances.

Exactly the point that I've been making since I first joined this board. The lifestyle is hard on families; they sacrifice a lot for the pilot to be on the road. When the time away is too high and the compensation given is too low, everyone loses! Hiring and retaining becomes a problem for the company. (Attrition comes with a steep price tag in this business). Low morale eventually shows up in days lost to DNIF as stress takes a toll. Pilots won't go the "extra mile" when they aren't treated with respect. Management's adversarial attitude gets in the way of doing what is best for the company as they forget that satisfied workers improve the bottom line. Good luck to you and your family, SK.

A UNION HOLDS MANAGEMENT ACCOUNTABLE

COMPENSATION MUST JUSTIFY THE SACRIFICE

 

[Fozzy]

Peter Griffin,
All valid concerns but no sense debating. You can call me if want to talk more. I do have to correct some of your info though:
1. I am not a Standards Captain, though I was one. I'm just a Line Captain who flew 728 hours last year.
2. I am not priviledged to any more company information being the CAB Chairman than you. I got the pay scales from the an DG's Admin within 5 minutes of calling her. I did all the comparison's myself, not them. I'm sorry your having so much trouble.
3. Being an 8 yr Captain will not benefit me seeing as I'm still half way down on the list in my fleet.
4. Regardless of what side you think I'm on, I still have to work under the same schedule rules as you. I still bid, I still can't get what I want, and when I go on the road and leave my family - it gets harder everytime I do it. I'm not partial to anyone but them!

Good Luck,

beener

beener,
After reading your post's, it really looks like you are disappointed with your management. You sound like you have had enough abuse. Here is a novel idea (and yes this is novel because so few on the company's "side" do it). Come out FOR the union. Seriously. You were elected to that position right? So you are trusted/popular/leader or whatever I assume. So why not do something crazy and yell at the top of your lungs "ENOUGH!". I bet that would get some peoples attention.
Good luck. You guys are all going to need it.

 

[flybeener1]

Peter,
I didn't post to start a debate, just to post the facts. I don't mind debating but I'd rather do it on the phone or face to face with you. I wasn't the only one in the meeting either, your rep was in there too.

Necro,
I gave you my name so you could validate the source.

Fozzy,
Thanks for the advice. In the end, I'll do what's right for me and my family.

beener

 

[igneousy2]

Then why not 6 on 7 off? Isn't this better? If you have such a SU, why throw all the new hires under the bus by not giving them HBA? How would YOU feel if hubby were just leaving the military to work for NJA and you were FORCED to live where they told you to? Even the regional airlines don't abuse their new hires. Why not push Buffet for a Defined Benefits pension plan such as Citation and Bumardier? Are your boys not worth it? Why wait another 5 years? Do you really think this package is fair for FOs, CAs?
I hope I don't sound caustic, but if NJA were truly making money, why didn't you seek a pay package similar to what Delta had in 2001, i.e $250,000+ a year for CAs? I don't see how a 5,000 hour + CA who flies VERY high net worth individuals only makes 100K a year.

Quick DRUG TEST this guy! You were kidding right!!! hahahahhahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahaha!

 

[Texasskicker]

I'm back

They let me outta purgatory free.

I'm back, dudes and dudettes. WHAT DID I MISS?

Did y'all miss me? I know moderator's prolly waitin for me to start kickin some posterior, but i HAVE a New Year's resolution. I am movin my herd outta these here parts. After I take care of some business.

Tex.

 

[Peter_Griffin]

Geeeeezzzz

Hey Beener, that's all fine and good if you are gonna really post the facts, but you are only interested in spewing forth the same ole' rhetoric and company line that is getting us nowhere. You call it a raise, I call it overtime disguised as salary. You call it improved schedule options, I call it forced overtime schedules for 75% of fleet. You paint yourself as somewhat disadvantaged to be halfway down the seniority list for the Challenger 300 and I just want to laugh cause most of us would kill to be in your shoes. Blah blah blah....

You're right it's a never ending cycle, but I have the endurance to win....

So my rep was at the meeting huh? Just how is it you think you know who my rep is? Or are you referring to the general concept? I've gotten the PMs and I know RH claims to know who every grumbler on this board is, and true enough one can probably put two and two together and figure out who all of us are, I really don't care.

However, I still prefer to think I have the freedom of anonymity and say how it really is than post my name and constantly be worried about towing the company line. However if you're so sure, you or Rick can call me ANYTIME and we'll get together for beers and b!tching.

Beener, you are not a bad guy and I do value your input, but did you really think you could post half nonsense here and not get challenged? That being said I respect the fact you had the stones to do it to begin with and am grateful for a least SOME explanation even if it was just from another line guy. 728 hours huh? The only guys I know who are that precise with their logbook are those looking for another job

So let me say this again as you might not have been around for it and I know a week's worth or so of everyone's posts were deleted and this might have been one of them. I think Flex has the potential to be the envy of the fractional world for pilots. The equipment is kick a$$, the people are good and we really do provide a higher level service for our owners. Now if we can just be compensated fairly and fix some QOL issues, it would make it a dream job. I am NOT gonna love it or leave it, your way or the highway. I am going to fight to fix it and be rewarded in the end.

People who want to get things done find ways to get it done. People who don't find reasons why they can't.

I don't know about you Beener, but I've heard all kinds of reasons/excuses lately and not much else.

I just want what WE deserve, what our families deserve. Not becasue NJA or CS or your Aunt Sally got it, but because we derserve it, we work our a$$es off and our families suffer under the current QOL dude. So truly be partial to your family, fight for better here at flex and send in your card.

Peter,
I didn't post to start a debate, just to post the facts. I don't mind debating but I'd rather do it on the phone or face to face with you. I wasn't the only one in the meeting either, your rep was in there too.

Necro,
I gave you my name so you could validate the source.

Fozzy,
Thanks for the advice. In the end, I'll do what's right for me and my family.

beener

 

[imon]

My 2 worth cents, if I could offer it……….

It’s probably not worth a penny, but here’s my opinion….

We have a lot of good things here….

As has been previously stated, the planes are kick ass, and for the most part, the people are good to work with.

BUT, we have a long way to go. Working hard is not the issue. We slave 24/7 on the road and do it professionally.

However, it would be nice to be involved with our children’s lives from some other place than Hanger 17. We need more time off!! A guarantee, not a “Mmmmm, we’ll try.”

-See you at the Pickle Bar

 

[FraxJockey]

Management responds

To date there has been NO RESPONSE from management despite several direct attempts from many pilots to get any information let alone specifics. We can post owner names, their holiday schedules other personal information on Bluebelly, but we can’t post accurate information that’s already part of the public domain?

You want answers? Check the BB. I can already hear the responses from the peanut gallery ..."management koolaid, smoke and mirrors, fuzzy math..." these are just plain facts, hard to understand, but facts. Don't flame the messenger.

Frax

 

[netjetwife]

I have studied detection of deception for many months in my own up hill battle for justice. A quick lesson---hard to understand--points to a problem with credibility. Those with nothing to hide work at clarity. They want to be understood and will make sure that their communication is direct and easy to understand. Those who wish to deceive their target audience will employ evasive, indirect responses, that will result in confusion and distraction from the main issue. When the one(s) you seek answers from is/are making the discussion more confusing than it should be, suspect a hidden agenda and fight back with direct, specific questions. The response you get will tell you exactly what's going on. Ignoring your questions is evidence of deception.

My admiration and support for all of those who are fighting for fairness,
Netjetwife

 

[miles otoole]

I have studied detection of deception for many months in my own up hill battle for justice. A quick lesson---hard to understand--points to a problem with credibility. Those with nothing to hide work at clarity. They want to be understood and will make sure that their communication is direct and easy to understand. Those who wish to deceive their target audience will employ evasive, indirect responses, that will result in confusion and distraction from the main issue. When the one(s) you seek answers from is/are making the discussion more confusing than it should be, suspect a hidden agenda and fight back with direct, specific questions. The response you get will tell you exactly what's going on. Ignoring your questions is evidence of deception.

My admiration and support for all of those who are fighting for fairness,
Netjetwife

Open your eyes. Maybe it's because some folks don't want to hear what they are being told, which is one thing, but to pull the old management deception thing is another. Which is it?

 

[netjetwife]

Originally Posted by Peter_Griffin
To date there has been NO RESPONSE from management despite several direct attempts from many pilots to get any information let alone specifics. We can post owner names, their holiday schedules other personal information on Bluebelly, but we can’t post accurate information that’s already part of the public domain?

Seems rather obvious to me Mr (O) tool(e). It's hard to hear an answer that isn't there! Lack of information is a classic sign of evasion.

 

[miles otoole]

You want answers? Check the BB. I can already hear the responses from the peanut gallery ..."management koolaid, smoke and mirrors, fuzzy math..." these are just plain facts, hard to understand, but facts. Don't flame the messenger.

Frax

W,
Please look 2 posts above. Apparently, the answers are on the COMPANY web site. One employee says NO answers and another says the facts are there. I wonder which biased point of view you'll take? AGAIN, just because it's not what you want to HEAR, doesn't mean you have to lie about what you SEE. I am SURE your kids have taught you that-OR, maybe not.

P.S. This is fun-you?