Flexjet Falls Short

[Guitar rocker]

Honey,
Please look 2 posts above. Apparently, the answers are on the COMPANY web site. One employee says NO answers and another says the facts are there. I wonder which biased point of view you'll take? AGAIN, just because it's not what you want to HEAR, doesn't mean you have to lie about what you SEE. I am SURE your kids have taught you that-OR, maybe not.

P.S. This is fun-you?

Tool, you are really ignorant. I havent seen a single post from you which makes any sense. You are really out for NJA............I think that you got turned down from NJA. Our interviewers were doing some good screening when they rejected you!

 

[netjetwife]

My assessment of the information provided was based on FJ's admission that --these are just plain facts, hard to understand. It was merely backed up by pilots' observations that the company was not forthcoming to their questions. Therefore I stand by most of my post. I will make one concession to you Mr. Otoole, it was wrong of me to misuse your name. I will retract that and point out that I am not "Honey".

Fun? No. I take all of it very seriously. I firmly believe that many managers drag their heels and respond evasively. For a fact, that was the case at NJA last year. The signs are there that other frac pilots are having the same experience.


F RAC PILOTS THAT ARE
U NDERPAID/OVERWORKED
N EED TO STAND TOGETHER

 

[FraxJockey]

Wtf?

My assessment of the information provided was based on FJ's admission that --these are just plain facts, hard to understand. It was merely backed up by pilots' observations that the company was not forthcoming to their questions. Therefore I stand by most of my post. I will make one concession to you Mr. Otoole, it was wrong of me to misuse your name. I will retract that and point out that I am not "Honey".

Fun? No. I take all of it very seriously. I firmly believe that many managers drag their heels and respond evasively. For a fact, that was the case at NJA last year. The signs are there that other frac pilots are having the same experience.


F RAC PILOTS THAT ARE
U NDERPAID/OVERWORKED
N EED TO STAND TOGETHER

I didn't have a hard time understanding, I was just saying that because inevitably the peanut gallery... and those who don't even have access to the info or have read it (ie. Netjetwife) were going to claim it was. Even if you could or had read it , your blinders would have steered you clear of any pertinent info. Truthfully this is the first attempt I have seen by management to clear up some of the facts.

Frax

 

[miles otoole]

NJW and gitar,
You stand corrected. And I don't even know who FraxJockey is. Apparently my posts are making more and more sense. Just because you don't agree, doesn't mean they shouldn't make sense to you. How about an apology to us?

 

[Peter_Griffin]

Okay guys and gals of the past several posts,

Here is the real scoop. This past SATURDAY, almost one full week after the plan was announced, one of our manangement guys posted a VERY general, very BROAD overview of what transpired in the meeting. Basically the agenda bullet points without any SPECIFIC or RELEVANT information and certainly no payscale info. I know it didn't come close to answering even one of my questions. Anybody else out there going to back me up on this?

If that is what fraxjockey and toolboy want to see as management answering the questions, whatever. There have been several posts to the BB requesting the meeting specifics be posted. SILENCE for almost an enetire week and then this. Right after that an ACP wrote in that they wouldn't post any numbers or payscales because they didn't think pilots would want their pay info there on the board for other non-pilot employees to read. Even though they all already know anyway or very easily could find out if they wanted. (Especially since other pilots had already posted where they could get the info elsewhere on the web for these non-pilots to read...)

I'm sure there will be more flex pilots here to back up my side of the story than fraxjockey's because his is just part of the spin. Help me out guys -- don't let guys like this hijack the truth.

I'm pretty sure I know who he is and can verify that while he's really not managment, he is painful to be around the few times I had the displeasure. He says the same crap in person that he does on flight info --mostly verbatim. He was just upgraded to captain after 4 years FO, has gotten 3 free type ratings to boot so I think he feels he has reason to be singing the company song and dance right now. I'm right fraxjockey aren't I?

If anything tool and frax, you owe wife and guitar an apology. You don't want a union fine, we'll have plenty of votes without you anyway. But don't try and steer people away from the truth just becuase you refuse to see it.

 

[netjetwife]

Thanks Peter! Timely update! Actually, if I am treated civilly by the more notorious of the posters, I consider all things well on FlightInfo. Speaking about the behaviors exhibited by deceptive people, doesn't require me to have the specifics of the info under debate. I will leave that part of the argument to the pilots of said company. Your post has vindicated my own, Peter. Additionally, my personal experience with being on the receiving end of deception and evasion makes me qualified to share what I have learned. Lying is, sadly, rather common place. The higher the stakes, the more likely one is to be subjected to it--in all its various forms. Protect yourselves by insisting on the truth.

 

[netjetwife]

Frax, it is an indisputable fact that the NJ pilots have raised the bar in the fractional industry.
Those who stand under the bar, while refusing to admit that it's there are ---

A) in denial
B) wearing blinders
C) both

Being the fair person that I am, I leave it to you to decide which category you belong to...

 

[Necromonger]

I Got Your Hard Facts

Truthfully this is the first attempt I have seen by management to clear up some of the facts.

Frax

FraxJockitch and toolboy,

Let me type…. R e a l l y …..S l o w …. F o r…. Y o u !!!!!

Like Mr. Griff said, if you didn’t go to the meeting, you were left to calling your coworkers or reading this sight to get info about the package. Almost a week went by before our first response from DG gave us the “High Points” of the meeting. (I smile at that one) No specifics, no reasons for not addressing key issues. Just vague management drivel.

Today (Tuesday), we read your “Hard Facts.” (I’m trying to type this without laughing.):laugh:

We got an explanation on the law of averages…. Yeah….I guess we just couldn’t figure this one out… So Our fearless leader tells us:
(……….Now hold on to your hats folks …..And, I hope you sitting down…’Cause this is ground breaking stuff)

If you have 1 pilot with a 15 day line and 1 with a 17 day line, you have an average line of 16 days for both…..

The post goes on and on to explain how he came up with this theory. He even includes examples with 3 or 4 pilots. Then it goes on to explain about not giving us 3 raises in a year. hhmmm, Let's not get into that pile of CR@P!

Man, ItchyFrax, I sure am glad he “cleared up” those facts for us. I see you feel better.

Good Grief! Set down the Kool- Aide. S.S.D.D.

It’s time to spin toward the TRUTH!
STOP the F.U.D. !!!!!

And, Toolboy, do you even work here? Get a clue

 

[Necromonger]

Thanks NJW and G Rocker. Your insights are always welcome by most of us out here.

We smell what you're cookin...and we're comin' over for dinner.

 

[Guitar rocker]

NJW and gitar,
You stand corrected. And I don't even know who FraxJockey is. Apparently my posts are making more and more sense. Just because you don't agree, doesn't mean they shouldn't make sense to you. How about an apology to us?

You mean, for YOU??? Ha aha aha ahaaa!!!!!! Are you high???

 

[Guitar rocker]

If anything tool and frax, you owe wife and guitar an apology. You don't want a union fine, we'll have plenty of votes without you anyway. But don't try and steer people away from the truth just becuase you refuse to see it.

Good post Peter Griffin!

 

[FraxJockey]

Oh well

Shoot the messenger then. And Griffin the ADDITIONAL posts by DG were made on TUESDAY. Why should I appologize to Netjetwife? I just said there was some additional info on the COMPANY board and she goes off on me. Just posting info to inform the uninformed. And Necro sorry you couldn't understand what was posted, that's exactly why I said it would be hard to understand (for some). Sheesh

Frax

 

[Peter_Griffin]

Shoot the messenger then. And Griffin the ADDITIONAL posts by DG were made on TUESDAY. Why should I appologize to Netjetwife? I just said there was some additional info on the COMPANY board and she goes off on me. Just posting info to inform the uninformed. And Necro sorry you couldn't understand what was posted, that's exactly why I said it would be hard to understand (for some). Sheesh

Frax

Frax --

You are a moron and use half truths purposefully and manipulatively. The meeting and announcement was made at 9 am on 1/9/06.

The FIRST by DG post regarding the meeting agenda/topic nonspecific drivel bullet points were posted on Bluebelly on Saturday 1/14/06. Almost one full week after the announcement came out.

Then on TUESDAY, 1/17/06 (more than a full week) came the more specific post Necro was referring to regarding our lesson in averages which still did NOT contain any useful, relevant, specific or HELPFUL information.

So while you are correct in saying the announcement came out tuesday, you fail to mention it was the tuesday 1 WEEK later you manipulator.

What you are trying to do frax is take truthful information and twist it and manipulate it to fit your argument. You are trying to make it seem as though managament was right on top of this and look at the dates -- they most certainly were not.

Most pilots are still very upset about this lag and lack in communication. Glad to hear you're not one of them, but something tells me they could do nothing wrong in your eyes and pilts fighting for a union can do nothing right.

You should apologize to netjetwife and everyone else for lying and evading and just generally for being yourself. If you or any other pilot out there can prove what I have been saying all along is either incorrect or slanted, go for it dude. I know there are two sides to every story, but I am very careful to be honest with the facts and upfront with my with my position. You are the opposite. You will do anything to attack the argument or credibilty of any pro-union pilot. So attack me with reality and truth or STFU you moron.

 

[Peter_Griffin]

W,
Please look 2 posts above. Apparently, the answers are on the COMPANY web site. One employee says NO answers and another says the facts are there. I wonder which biased point of view you'll take? AGAIN, just because it's not what you want to HEAR, doesn't mean you have to lie about what you SEE. I am SURE your kids have taught you that-OR, maybe not.

P.S. This is fun-you?

Tool, please see the post above for answers to your post. One employee was being deceitful, one was not. At the time I wrote the post wife was refferring to, there were no answers. For that matter, the information frax jockey was referring to wasn't really an answer either.

You should take your own advice about hearing and seeing. You wanted to believe frax, so you did even though though the facts weren't there to back him up. Yet do a little research and you will see there are dozens of other flex pilots out there who back up what I am saying.

You are anti-union plain and simple. Fine. We get it.

Wife will take her apology now.

 

[miles otoole]

My humblest apologizes, NJW.

 

[Necromonger]

Showin' Frax some Love...not

Shoot the messenger then. And Griffin the ADDITIONAL posts by DG were made on TUESDAY. Why should I appologize to Netjetwife? I just said there was some additional info on the COMPANY board and she goes off on me. Just posting info to inform the uninformed. And Necro sorry you couldn't understand what was posted, that's exactly why I said it would be hard to understand (for some). Sheesh

Frax

Hhhmmm… Shoot the messenger? ..Couldn’t understand? Open your eyes, kid.

There is nothing hard to understand in that post. It is the same stuff we’ve been hearing. Except this time he’s talking down to your level. What? DG must think the pilot group is comprised of a bunch of uninformed idiots. Apparently, YOU bought into it.

Shoot the messenger? :uzi: YOU are no messenger. You come off as a cheap disciple of management.
You say your “just posting info to inform the uninformed” and
“Truthfully this is the first attempt I have seen by management to clear up some of the facts.”
I hope they can do better than this.

CAB’s meeting today. Yes, to see how these new work rules should be implemented. I hope they actually listen to what these guys have to say. (Unlike the past, when they were just pacified or ignored)

There is a new group on the rise……THEN, management will be forced to listen to US.
Just check YES, and mail your card in. You will loose nothing.

Come on Union Bashers, let’s hear from ya!

 

[FraxJockey]

Like I said...

:uzi: Shoot the messenger. I have no agenda just pointing out some info. Not saying it was good or bad, just saying it is there. Those who don't like or understand info just bash it...

Frax

 

[Peter_Griffin]

:uzi: Shoot the messenger. I have no agenda just pointing out some info. Not saying it was good or bad, just saying it is there. Those who don't like or understand info just bash it...

Frax

That's all you can say fraxboy? You are not pointing out info. You are spinning and evading. You are using half truths to jusify a position that you share with very few people. How can you possibly say you don't have an agenda when you are willing to mislead to get your "message" out?

I'm not bashing your "information" because lies and half truths are NOT "information" they are MISINFORMATION -- a common union busting tactic. Like I said before, your a self important a$$, recently upgraded, 3 type company stooge. Your are one of handful (like 10) of pilots for whom this annoncement benefited you completely and can obviously think only of yourself and not the pilot group as a whole. 'nough said.

 

[Club ORD FO]

Hey folks. I'm an independence guy and just got home from the job fair out in Dulles. NetJets and Flex were each interviewing hundreds of our guys (ongoing today I think) right across the hall from each other. NJ tunred me down for an interview last week after i spent 3 days filling in their damn application packet. They saw that my flight time in the last 12 months was low and said no thanks without asking why.

It was kinda funny seeing the two companies interviewing right across the hall. In the Flex room, us indy guys are sitting around the conference table laughing, drinking botteld water, and talking about the good ol' days while we wait for our names to be called. In the NJ room...they we talking a written test, and not looking to happy about it. hmmm... NJ also packed up and left at 5pm, while the Flex folks were truckin' past 7:30pm when I left.

So that kinda told me something about the two companies. I was offered a job at Flex and I took it, so I'll be joining you all soon. I know they have offered a lot of us jobs so I think you'll be getting a lot of good indy guys this spring. I do know that some turned the job down, most saying their were not willing to sign a trainging contract. (I don't have any PIC to get on with a major, so I'm gonna sit for a while no matter where I go).

I don't live in any of the bases so my #1 reason to go with NJ was the ability to be home based one day. But, I have accepted the job, and part of the reason was I see room for improvement in QOL at Flex. I figure I can get in now and offer my voice to help push for changes. Hopefully I'll see those changes before I hang myself living out in LA.

But, overall I am happy with my decision. from the outside it looks like a strong company with a lot of potential.

So.... I'm looking forward to it. I'm sure we'll make a good addition to your group. And if you know anything about our airlines history (saying NO to pay cuts to stay with UAL, hotstile takeover attemp by Mesa) we know how to put up a fight and do NOT give in easy.

 

[Majik]

Sorry that you didn't get an offer from NJA. You sound like a good addition and it's our loss. Good luck at Flex. I have friends there that are pushing for improvements and they will welcome your help. Good luck.