Flexjet Falls Short

[FraxJockey]

Management responds

To date there has been NO RESPONSE from management despite several direct attempts from many pilots to get any information let alone specifics. We can post owner names, their holiday schedules other personal information on Bluebelly, but we can’t post accurate information that’s already part of the public domain?

You want answers? Check the BB. I can already hear the responses from the peanut gallery ..."management koolaid, smoke and mirrors, fuzzy math..." these are just plain facts, hard to understand, but facts. Don't flame the messenger.

Frax

 

[netjetwife]

I have studied detection of deception for many months in my own up hill battle for justice. A quick lesson---hard to understand--points to a problem with credibility. Those with nothing to hide work at clarity. They want to be understood and will make sure that their communication is direct and easy to understand. Those who wish to deceive their target audience will employ evasive, indirect responses, that will result in confusion and distraction from the main issue. When the one(s) you seek answers from is/are making the discussion more confusing than it should be, suspect a hidden agenda and fight back with direct, specific questions. The response you get will tell you exactly what's going on. Ignoring your questions is evidence of deception.

My admiration and support for all of those who are fighting for fairness,
Netjetwife

 

[miles otoole]

I have studied detection of deception for many months in my own up hill battle for justice. A quick lesson---hard to understand--points to a problem with credibility. Those with nothing to hide work at clarity. They want to be understood and will make sure that their communication is direct and easy to understand. Those who wish to deceive their target audience will employ evasive, indirect responses, that will result in confusion and distraction from the main issue. When the one(s) you seek answers from is/are making the discussion more confusing than it should be, suspect a hidden agenda and fight back with direct, specific questions. The response you get will tell you exactly what's going on. Ignoring your questions is evidence of deception.

My admiration and support for all of those who are fighting for fairness,
Netjetwife

Open your eyes. Maybe it's because some folks don't want to hear what they are being told, which is one thing, but to pull the old management deception thing is another. Which is it?

 

[netjetwife]

Originally Posted by Peter_Griffin
To date there has been NO RESPONSE from management despite several direct attempts from many pilots to get any information let alone specifics. We can post owner names, their holiday schedules other personal information on Bluebelly, but we can’t post accurate information that’s already part of the public domain?

Seems rather obvious to me Mr (O) tool(e). It's hard to hear an answer that isn't there! Lack of information is a classic sign of evasion.

 

[miles otoole]

You want answers? Check the BB. I can already hear the responses from the peanut gallery ..."management koolaid, smoke and mirrors, fuzzy math..." these are just plain facts, hard to understand, but facts. Don't flame the messenger.

Frax

W,
Please look 2 posts above. Apparently, the answers are on the COMPANY web site. One employee says NO answers and another says the facts are there. I wonder which biased point of view you'll take? AGAIN, just because it's not what you want to HEAR, doesn't mean you have to lie about what you SEE. I am SURE your kids have taught you that-OR, maybe not.

P.S. This is fun-you?

 

[Guitar rocker]

Honey,
Please look 2 posts above. Apparently, the answers are on the COMPANY web site. One employee says NO answers and another says the facts are there. I wonder which biased point of view you'll take? AGAIN, just because it's not what you want to HEAR, doesn't mean you have to lie about what you SEE. I am SURE your kids have taught you that-OR, maybe not.

P.S. This is fun-you?

Tool, you are really ignorant. I havent seen a single post from you which makes any sense. You are really out for NJA............I think that you got turned down from NJA. Our interviewers were doing some good screening when they rejected you!

 

[netjetwife]

My assessment of the information provided was based on FJ's admission that --these are just plain facts, hard to understand. It was merely backed up by pilots' observations that the company was not forthcoming to their questions. Therefore I stand by most of my post. I will make one concession to you Mr. Otoole, it was wrong of me to misuse your name. I will retract that and point out that I am not "Honey".

Fun? No. I take all of it very seriously. I firmly believe that many managers drag their heels and respond evasively. For a fact, that was the case at NJA last year. The signs are there that other frac pilots are having the same experience.


F RAC PILOTS THAT ARE
U NDERPAID/OVERWORKED
N EED TO STAND TOGETHER

 

[FraxJockey]

Wtf?

My assessment of the information provided was based on FJ's admission that --these are just plain facts, hard to understand. It was merely backed up by pilots' observations that the company was not forthcoming to their questions. Therefore I stand by most of my post. I will make one concession to you Mr. Otoole, it was wrong of me to misuse your name. I will retract that and point out that I am not "Honey".

Fun? No. I take all of it very seriously. I firmly believe that many managers drag their heels and respond evasively. For a fact, that was the case at NJA last year. The signs are there that other frac pilots are having the same experience.


F RAC PILOTS THAT ARE
U NDERPAID/OVERWORKED
N EED TO STAND TOGETHER

I didn't have a hard time understanding, I was just saying that because inevitably the peanut gallery... and those who don't even have access to the info or have read it (ie. Netjetwife) were going to claim it was. Even if you could or had read it , your blinders would have steered you clear of any pertinent info. Truthfully this is the first attempt I have seen by management to clear up some of the facts.

Frax

 

[miles otoole]

NJW and gitar,
You stand corrected. And I don't even know who FraxJockey is. Apparently my posts are making more and more sense. Just because you don't agree, doesn't mean they shouldn't make sense to you. How about an apology to us?

 

[Peter_Griffin]

Okay guys and gals of the past several posts,

Here is the real scoop. This past SATURDAY, almost one full week after the plan was announced, one of our manangement guys posted a VERY general, very BROAD overview of what transpired in the meeting. Basically the agenda bullet points without any SPECIFIC or RELEVANT information and certainly no payscale info. I know it didn't come close to answering even one of my questions. Anybody else out there going to back me up on this?

If that is what fraxjockey and toolboy want to see as management answering the questions, whatever. There have been several posts to the BB requesting the meeting specifics be posted. SILENCE for almost an enetire week and then this. Right after that an ACP wrote in that they wouldn't post any numbers or payscales because they didn't think pilots would want their pay info there on the board for other non-pilot employees to read. Even though they all already know anyway or very easily could find out if they wanted. (Especially since other pilots had already posted where they could get the info elsewhere on the web for these non-pilots to read...)

I'm sure there will be more flex pilots here to back up my side of the story than fraxjockey's because his is just part of the spin. Help me out guys -- don't let guys like this hijack the truth.

I'm pretty sure I know who he is and can verify that while he's really not managment, he is painful to be around the few times I had the displeasure. He says the same crap in person that he does on flight info --mostly verbatim. He was just upgraded to captain after 4 years FO, has gotten 3 free type ratings to boot so I think he feels he has reason to be singing the company song and dance right now. I'm right fraxjockey aren't I?

If anything tool and frax, you owe wife and guitar an apology. You don't want a union fine, we'll have plenty of votes without you anyway. But don't try and steer people away from the truth just becuase you refuse to see it.

 

[netjetwife]

Thanks Peter! Timely update! Actually, if I am treated civilly by the more notorious of the posters, I consider all things well on FlightInfo. Speaking about the behaviors exhibited by deceptive people, doesn't require me to have the specifics of the info under debate. I will leave that part of the argument to the pilots of said company. Your post has vindicated my own, Peter. Additionally, my personal experience with being on the receiving end of deception and evasion makes me qualified to share what I have learned. Lying is, sadly, rather common place. The higher the stakes, the more likely one is to be subjected to it--in all its various forms. Protect yourselves by insisting on the truth.

 

[netjetwife]

Frax, it is an indisputable fact that the NJ pilots have raised the bar in the fractional industry.
Those who stand under the bar, while refusing to admit that it's there are ---

A) in denial
B) wearing blinders
C) both

Being the fair person that I am, I leave it to you to decide which category you belong to...

 

[Necromonger]

I Got Your Hard Facts

Truthfully this is the first attempt I have seen by management to clear up some of the facts.

Frax

FraxJockitch and toolboy,

Let me type…. R e a l l y …..S l o w …. F o r…. Y o u !!!!!

Like Mr. Griff said, if you didn’t go to the meeting, you were left to calling your coworkers or reading this sight to get info about the package. Almost a week went by before our first response from DG gave us the “High Points” of the meeting. (I smile at that one) No specifics, no reasons for not addressing key issues. Just vague management drivel.

Today (Tuesday), we read your “Hard Facts.” (I’m trying to type this without laughing.):laugh:

We got an explanation on the law of averages…. Yeah….I guess we just couldn’t figure this one out… So Our fearless leader tells us:
(……….Now hold on to your hats folks …..And, I hope you sitting down…’Cause this is ground breaking stuff)

If you have 1 pilot with a 15 day line and 1 with a 17 day line, you have an average line of 16 days for both…..

The post goes on and on to explain how he came up with this theory. He even includes examples with 3 or 4 pilots. Then it goes on to explain about not giving us 3 raises in a year. hhmmm, Let's not get into that pile of CR@P!

Man, ItchyFrax, I sure am glad he “cleared up” those facts for us. I see you feel better.

Good Grief! Set down the Kool- Aide. S.S.D.D.

It’s time to spin toward the TRUTH!
STOP the F.U.D. !!!!!

And, Toolboy, do you even work here? Get a clue

 

[Necromonger]

Thanks NJW and G Rocker. Your insights are always welcome by most of us out here.

We smell what you're cookin...and we're comin' over for dinner.

 

[Guitar rocker]

NJW and gitar,
You stand corrected. And I don't even know who FraxJockey is. Apparently my posts are making more and more sense. Just because you don't agree, doesn't mean they shouldn't make sense to you. How about an apology to us?

You mean, for YOU??? Ha aha aha ahaaa!!!!!! Are you high???