Flex Jet read file

[BlueNose]

Kind of like those responsible for the financial crisis should be held accountable? Oh wait, no, those were management types. No need to hold them accountable. Just demand a higher standard from the guys who try and hold management accountable. If management Fs up, bail 'em out...

I, for one, would have cheered to see Lloyd Blankfein, Hank Greenberg, Angelo Mozilo and their cronies doing the perp walk, and let wall street crash and recover all on its own. But because they didn't, because their corrupt political buddies on both sides saved them, everyone in leadership everywhere should be able to claim a pass? That's your parable? Didn't your mother ever tell you that two wrongs don't make a right?

 

[luckydog]

If you don't think the lists will be merged, and right soon for that matter, then you're not paying attention. They're not even bothering with the pretense of separate companies anymore.

Right you are. I think the terms of the Global operation are just the first of the 'good things coming'.

 

[DirtyBeech]

Yeah. Corporate Wings operated, under Flops' certificate, with any ol' DAC pilot, and branded as Flexjet. Good things indeed

 

[doh]

Not exactly separate ops.

 

[X-rated]

Kind of like those responsible for the financial crisis should be held accountable? Oh wait, no, those were management types. No need to hold them accountable. Just demand a higher standard from the guys who try and hold management accountable. If management Fs up, bail 'em out...

I'm so tired of hearing that B.S. line. Yes, Banks exploited the rules put in place by government. What else would you expect them to do? Did they sometimes step over the line? Without question. But, they are certainly not wholly responsible for the financial crisis. When Bill Clinton made home ownership for all Americans a priority at his State of the Union address the die was cast. You want to hold the bank presidents responsible, but you don't feel the actual individuals who who bought homes they clearly could not afford and ultimately defaulted on should share in the blame at all right? If you're going to be pissed because banks failed to do proper due diligence, how come you place no blame at all on those who signed their name and blatantly lied? News flash, banks never would have gotten into the kind of subprime lending that let to the crash if were not for the government mandate to put low income buyers into homes they had no hope of affording. There was no MBS market before then, and no bank would have considered that type of "risky lending" had the government not pushed for it while guaranteeing the loans through Fannie and Freddie. Were corners cut? Yes. Did EVERYONE including the GSE's and bank regulators know about it? You bet your ass they did. Everyone knew they could flat out lie on a Stated Income loan for the low price of 1/2 of a percent added to the rate. School teachers and just about every other average citizen new about it. Do you really think the regulators and GSE's had no idea what was going on? Stop listening to the propaganda and think for a minute.

Without question the banks were culpable. So were the GSE's, regulators, politicians and wait for it.. consumers. My question to you is why you don't feel the folks that actually lied about their income and signed their name to mortgages they could not possibly afford bear no responsibility whatsoever?

Yeah man. It was all those bastard management types. It's a conspiracy, and I had no idea what was going on. Don't blame me, I'm too stupid to know I wasn't supposed to make schit up on my mortgage application. Besides, they let me get away with it, so it's all their fault.

Rant over... Please continue with the Pro/Con union snoozefest.

 

[BlueNose]

i'm so tired of hearing that b.s. Line. Yes, banks exploited the rules put in place by government. What else would you expect them to do? Did they sometimes step over the line? Without question. But, they are certainly not wholly responsible for the financial crisis. When bill clinton made home ownership for all americans a priority at his state of the union address the die was cast. You want to hold the bank presidents responsible, but you don't feel the actual individuals who who bought homes they clearly could not afford and ultimately defaulted on should share in the blame at all right? If you're going to be pissed because banks failed to do proper due diligence, how come you place no blame at all on those who signed their name and blatantly lied? News flash, banks never would have gotten into the kind of subprime lending that let to the crash if were not for the government mandate to put low income buyers into homes they had no hope of affording. There was no mbs market before then, and no bank would have considered that type of "risky lending" had the government not pushed for it while guaranteeing the loans through fannie and freddie. Were corners cut? Yes. Did everyone including the gse's and bank regulators know about it? You bet your ass they did. Everyone knew they could flat out lie on a stated income loan for the low price of 1/2 of a percent added to the rate. School teachers and just about every other average citizen new about it. Do you really think the regulators and gse's had no idea what was going on? Stop listening to the propaganda and think for a minute.

Without question the banks were culpable. So were the gse's, regulators, politicians and wait for it.. Consumers. My question to you is why you don't feel the folks that actually lied about their income and signed their name to mortgages they could not possibly afford bear no responsibility whatsoever?

Yeah man. It was all those bastard management types. It's a conspiracy, and i had no idea what was going on. Don't blame me, i'm too stupid to know i wasn't supposed to make schit up on my mortgage application. Besides, they let me get away with it, so it's all their fault.

Rant over... Please continue with the pro/con union snoozefest.

x 2...

 

[doh]

And the people who signed up for those loans were foreclosed on. And the politicians and financial institutions, collectively referred to as management by me, got taxpayer money. Management is not composed solely of business people. The United States has incentivized the rewards and socialized the risk. This will never turn out well. Now back on topic. The lines between the companies are being blurred to the point of erasure. Corporate Wings, on the FLOPS certificate and sold by Flex indeed.

 

[X-rated]

And the people who signed up for those loans were foreclosed on. And the politicians and financial institutions, collectively referred to as management by me, got taxpayer money. Management is not composed solely of business people. The United States has incentivized the rewards and socialized the risk. This will never turn out well.

The banks were actually given loans which were repaid with interest within a few months. Every single penny has been repaid plus interest. Would the homeowners that were foreclosed on have been in a position to repay bail out loans? They didn't have the cash flow to pay the loans they already had. Any new loans would have just buried them further and been more money written off. TARP was not a government give away. Do you really not see the difference?

 

[t-bone]

Glad to see X isn't spending all his time in the books learning his new G-ride...

 

[doh]

And do you really not see that we have incentivized the rewards while socializing the risk? Has that pay back with interest resulted in a lower debt or deficit for the taxpayer?

 

[doh]

Contract question: if the Globals are on FLOPS certificate, does your contract require they be crewed by FLOPS seniority list pilots?

 

[X-rated]

And do you really not see that we have incentivized the rewards while socializing the risk? Has that pay back with interest resulted in a lower debt or deficit for the taxpayer?

No, It most certainly did not result in a lower debt or deficit, because our government can't stop spending. The 800 Billion dollar emergency bank bail out added to the debt, but it's funny how when that money came back with interest, the debt somehow did not go back down. These clowns in Washington spend money like drunken sailors in a whore house. I suppose that's the bank's fault too? Maybe it went to pay for the extended unemployment benefits which I think was appropriate even though you don't acknowledge was help for the little guy.

I'm not at all in support of government supporting private industry. This was a unique situation, and it did as much good for America as it did for the banks. You and I disagree a little on the cause of the problem. You seem to think it was entirely the big bad bankers. They certainly played their part, but I think the pandering politicians, hamstrung regulators, greedy GSE's, unqualified and or dishonest consumers, and most of all, the real estate speculators who drove home prices out of site thereby creating a massive bubble, all equally share the blame. The banks promised to give people money, and they held up their end of the bargain. When the bubble popped, those who didn't live up to their end of the bargain either because they couldn't or often simply because they chose not to, do not deserve the free pass you are determined to give them.

 

[X-rated]

Glad to see X isn't spending all his time in the books learning his new G-ride...

So far the fire hose is set on on low. Let's hope it lasts.

 

[Pacific]

x 2...

Exactly. The sooner the people of this once great country start taking responsibility for their own actions the sooner we'll reach a real economic and societal recovery. I'm sick of it.

 

[BlueNose]

No, It most certainly did not result in a lower debt or deficit, because our government can't stop spending. The 800 Billion dollar emergency bank bail out added to the debt, but it's funny how when that money came back with interest, the debt somehow did not go back down. These clowns in Washington spend money like drunken sailors in a whore house.

I think you should apologize. Comparing them to congress was an insult to drunken sailors everywhere.

 

[doh]

Reread what I wrote. Government and the banks are to blame, in equal measure.

 

[doh]

Now back to my question about the contract. Enough thread hijack.

 

[jetwash]

Now back to my question about the contract. Enough thread hijack.

It depends on how the relationship is set up. When that is clear then we will know.

FYI: the union already gave the go ahead for options pilots to apply for the Global positions as long as the Company approves their LOA request. They will then have the ability to come back and keep their senority number if they want to.
From what I hear not too many are interested in the positions.

 

[ProFracPilot]

FYI: the union already gave the go ahead for options pilots to apply for the Global positions as long as the Company approves their LOA request. They will then have the ability to come back and keep their senority number if they want to.

From what I hear not too many are interested in the positions.

The contract specifically limits a "personal leave of absence" to 12 months (Sec 16.2). Seat lock for the International Partner program is 24 months. It also states in Sec 16.1(j) that the pilot may not engage in any business or employment as a pilot, or any other business that directly competes with the company.

I see no conflicts here. Carry on.

 

[FR8DOG777]

Predictions for Feb 11th meeting. I sincerely hope uncle Kenny has a good rebuttal for the lack of 401k match. Phenoms going to Flex, Ops moving to Dallas. Midsize cabin emaciated. 30+ flops pilots retired in last 2 years with no recalls. Stacking the deck for a decert vote? Just my humble opinion but I would say so. For all you flex folks just getting to know Kenn, he will jeopardize whats left of flops and flex just to get rid of this union! Mark my words.