jetwash
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It's not FO guys pissed at Flex pilots, we see it as a positive.
The problem lies in internal FO pilots politics that is spilling over to Flight Info.
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Flex Jet read file
- Thread starter Ludicrous Speed
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It's not FO guys pissed at Flex pilots, we see it as a positive.
The problem lies in internal FO pilots politics that is spilling over to Flight Info.
Rubber Ducky
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Learn from past mistakes... When RTA complained about FO SFO pay, it was taken away. When RTA complained about FO travel allowance, it was taken away. When RTA complained about all the bases, they were taken away. When you complain about a specific group who has a benefit not available to everyone, it gets taken away. When FO complains that FJ pay is higher, it could be reduced. Unlike what BT says... be careful what you wish for cause you just might get it NONE. Don't attack ANYONE who has what others want, instead let those precedents be added benefits to others, even if not to all (i.e. Tier 3 basing). Lose the most common denominator mentality and the diverse group will benefit as a whole.
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993_Pilot
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Basically what Jetwash said - they are going to pace the 4th quarter sales to in order to not be over-committed. However, I disagree with his assessment of the CA deal. I don't think they ever intended to do that deal, but rather used it as a way to drive a wedge in the pilot group. KR has never asked the union to sign any LOA to buy Sentient, Spinnaker, Constant Aviation, Nextant, Flexjet and several others, but he suddenly needs a LOA to buy CA??? I call B.S. on that. When KR painted a rosy picture of bringing back up to 85 of our furloughed pilots to staff the 19 CA aircraft, he got a lot of hopes up. Then he blames it on the union saying that they prevented him from doing the deal, when they did no such thing, they only refused to sign his LOA. He was still always free to do the CA deal if he really wanted. Unfortunately, a small group of our pilots (both current and furloughed) bought in to his BS and he has driven a small wedge in to the group. I hope I am wrong, but I predict he will attempt to do something to drive a wedge between the Flex group and us too, and then blame it on the union again. His main goal is to have a divided pilot group in order to eventually get the union off property.
While there may be one or two, most of us definitely are NOT upset. I encourage all the Flops and flex crews to introduce ourselves to each other, and start a dialog. There may be a few bitter extemists on both sides of the fence, but I am sure if we can get some dialog started, both sides will clear up a lot of misconceptions, and learn that most of us are reasonable people, that basically want the same things.
I agree with this, but let's not blame it all on the RTA pilots, that is just more divisiveness, because the truth is that mostly these things were simply taken away by Sheeringa. The important thing here is for both pilot groups to try to lift each other up, and stand together as KR tries to play us against one another.
How did I get lumped into your tirade? I don't think you have ever understood a post I've written if you think that was deserved...
Everyone is in the same boat just usin different oars. Let's try to row together instead of spinning in circles...
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Newkem
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- Jan 28, 2008
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Sounds like your management = the third reich.
Id be willing to bet one day's perdeim that FO has airplanes parked uncrewed right now. Anybody? Mike mike mike mike mike.
Ludicrous Speed
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- Feb 9, 2009
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hawker retirement package
FlOps is retiring its hawkers and its pilots. For active hawker pilots assigned to the hawker fleet that may be considering voluntary separation from the company, here's the new low in retirement packages:
a. The Pilot's separation resigns his position with the Company, removes him from the Flight Options Pilots Seniority List and relinquishes any rights to recall.
b. The Pilot will receive a lump-sum, onetime payment of $25,000 or one (1) week of pay at his current 8 & 7 schedule pay rate for each year of completed service, whichever is greater. This onetime payment shall be
payable on December 31, 2013.
c. The balance of all remaining PTO in the Pilot's account will be paid in full on December 31, 2013.
d. The Company will pay the Pilot's entire COBRA premiums for six (6) months with an additional twelve (12) months of eligibility at the Pilot's expense.
In other words: You're disposable. We don't need you, we don't want you, & we don't think that much of you. Yeah, I know we said employees are the foundation of a service company and all. But that was when we needed you. Take your 25 large, shut up, & gtfo.
Some people will call this an incentive: I call it an insult. It is indicative of how management views the pilots. There's a union at FlOps and that is the only reason why this LOA was drafted. It would have been far simpler for management to announce a second out-of-seniority reduction-in-force (RIF). Flex Jet pilots take note: FlOps pilots don't dislike you. We only want you to know that the story you're hearing from Uncle is not in fact the only story to be told.
FlOps is retiring its hawkers and its pilots. For active hawker pilots assigned to the hawker fleet that may be considering voluntary separation from the company, here's the new low in retirement packages:
a. The Pilot's separation resigns his position with the Company, removes him from the Flight Options Pilots Seniority List and relinquishes any rights to recall.
b. The Pilot will receive a lump-sum, onetime payment of $25,000 or one (1) week of pay at his current 8 & 7 schedule pay rate for each year of completed service, whichever is greater. This onetime payment shall be
payable on December 31, 2013.
c. The balance of all remaining PTO in the Pilot's account will be paid in full on December 31, 2013.
d. The Company will pay the Pilot's entire COBRA premiums for six (6) months with an additional twelve (12) months of eligibility at the Pilot's expense.
In other words: You're disposable. We don't need you, we don't want you, & we don't think that much of you. Yeah, I know we said employees are the foundation of a service company and all. But that was when we needed you. Take your 25 large, shut up, & gtfo.
Some people will call this an incentive: I call it an insult. It is indicative of how management views the pilots. There's a union at FlOps and that is the only reason why this LOA was drafted. It would have been far simpler for management to announce a second out-of-seniority reduction-in-force (RIF). Flex Jet pilots take note: FlOps pilots don't dislike you. We only want you to know that the story you're hearing from Uncle is not in fact the only story to be told.
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Ludicrous Speed
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offer was short one digit
Uncle bought a portion of Flex for $185 million. A 25 hour 'value' jet card used to cost $99,000. The money is out there, we're just lead to believe it's not. A serious offer for a voluntary rif, for a >10 year employee, would be an amount of at least $125,000 or one year's salary equivalent, whichever is greater. (And $125,000 is far below where FlOps wages should be).
Oh, and a gold watch.
Uncle bought a portion of Flex for $185 million. A 25 hour 'value' jet card used to cost $99,000. The money is out there, we're just lead to believe it's not. A serious offer for a voluntary rif, for a >10 year employee, would be an amount of at least $125,000 or one year's salary equivalent, whichever is greater. (And $125,000 is far below where FlOps wages should be).
Oh, and a gold watch.
Exact on the mark ludicris. Just more of the typical you should be grateful for what we offer and except it and move on. What people forget is the 1108 took this crappy contract and I agree it is crap because the company cried bad economy, we don't have any money, this is the best we can do we wanna give you more but we can't afford it. So after 4 years of this nonsense the union settled. Never once did the company say you guys our family and we are gonna pay you what your worth they never said we want iyou guys to have great scope protection and the best work rules in the industry we want you guys to have a generous 401k match and awesome health benefits. Instead they fought tooth and nail to whittle away everything they could from the pilots. As they stuffed their own greedy pockets. That's the future that flexjets holds. Flex don't have a union cause they never needed one. Flops has a union cause they were forced into voting it in just to survive being paid slightly more than a Walmart greeter. With not as good a benefit package and no 401k match
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Fresh Air
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Understanding the Flex crews' position
It's unfair to expect the Flex crews to be enthusiastic about unionizing. Remember, we Options crews voted against it the first time around, and didn't get it done until we were saddled with a management team so offensive that we didn't have a choice. As much as I would like to see the Flex crews take the benefit of our experience and join us, I can't blame them for not doing it. In the same situation I would feel the same way. Unionizing is a big step, and happy crews don't take that step. Overall the Flex crews seem pretty happy. If and when DAC starts bringing the pain, perhaps we can help them organize if they decide to do so, but until then, it seems pointless to browbeat them about something that they have already decided. It's not as if anonymous posts on an internet message board have ever convinced anyone to change their minds about anything, ever, anyhow.....
It's unfair to expect the Flex crews to be enthusiastic about unionizing. Remember, we Options crews voted against it the first time around, and didn't get it done until we were saddled with a management team so offensive that we didn't have a choice. As much as I would like to see the Flex crews take the benefit of our experience and join us, I can't blame them for not doing it. In the same situation I would feel the same way. Unionizing is a big step, and happy crews don't take that step. Overall the Flex crews seem pretty happy. If and when DAC starts bringing the pain, perhaps we can help them organize if they decide to do so, but until then, it seems pointless to browbeat them about something that they have already decided. It's not as if anonymous posts on an internet message board have ever convinced anyone to change their minds about anything, ever, anyhow.....
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