Fired - Need Advice

[El Ocho]

Seems to me the lesson here is not, what really happened, but what is the impression your story will leave of you at the interview.

Judging from the reaction here, I'd probably come up with something more than "I did just one thing wrong and I was fired"

On a side note, it sounds like TSA has some training issues... Not sure what to say about that, but maybe you had a valuable lesson about not allowing the training department to drive the quality of your training... You gotta get in there and be proactive about your progress and stay WAY ahead of where you think you should be. Your standards need to be higher than the training department.

And, sometimes training departments do SUCK... But they'll never tell you this, and you might not figure it out until it is way too late... Sometimes they can't teach, sometimes they are personally frustrated, sometimes they just know how to Test, not Train... So just don't expect to be well "trained" at the regional level, and don't beat yourself up.

 

[BoilerUP]

Purdue must be proud........

He's not a Purdue guy...

 

[Cadillac]

Your career isn't over.

You probably just need to throw $30,000+ more dollars at it by applying to gulfstream academy. They'll take anybody, and when NWA figures out its stuff, you will flow right into a jet job at pinnacle!


If dad isn't feeling up to shelling out the cash though, flying freight is a great job. I highly recommend it.

 

[airlinepilot]

Hey CoolYokeDude

If you think IOE Capt's are looking to wash guys out then you don't have much expereince or understanding of any 121 companies goals......making guys/gals leave cost money! There is more to this guys story......no pilot has ever been fired for a bad visual pattern. IOE is just that...initial operating experience....with HELP and INSTRUCTION!! I don't know any IOE Capt's that won't go the extra mile trying to help a guy or gal that is truly trying to "cooperate and graduate"....maybe some of the IOE Capt's on here would like to chime in!!! I have over 4500 flying hrs as an instructor/Evaluator in jets.....I think I know what cooperate and graduate means in terms or ability and attitude.......Clearly this was not a major and if you can't make the grade in the regionals in IOE then you are not going to make it in the majors....and don't think the majors are going to waste time on someone who has problems in training....IOE problems are RED FLAGS.....if you don't understand this then your youth and inexperience are truly showing...... Yes, I spent 20+ years flying in the Air Force where standards are very,very high.... and then I spend time in a regional waiting in the pool for a major so I know the difference.
Bottom line is if you can't cut training (and let's face it, IOE is training) in a small jet or prop...then the record you have established will not be a plus when any airline. My comment about toast was not a cheap shot....it was a realistic comment......and if not you tell me how many guys you know that work for a major that busted IOE at a regional.

 

[flylowman]

Get the Part 135 PIC minimums and start flying freight. It's a great way to get lots of experience and build some good years behind you to show to a future airline.

This man said it right. Go do something else for a while you will learn a great deal and build experience. Don't let this get you down.

Good Luck

 

[Standby 1]

...and if not you tell me how many guys you know that work for a major that busted IOE at a regional.

Actually, I know 2 who are personal friends. (You asked....)

 

[208starcheck]

Go for the Airnet thing. It's a good way to get very comfortable flying. You can then move to the Lear and laugh at the moron military guys posting on this thread. You will soon see why. Most of these military guys are too structured. You will be able to fly, work a problem and change your destination to an unfamiliar airport cause dispatch has a box for you to pick up. I know the military guys are going to bash me for saying this, but you will see it some day. I have many many times. Everyone learns to handle it. It's just fun to watch some cocky know-it-all military pilot fall apart. Everyone eventually catches up though. Airnet will be good for you. Be ready, they flush people that don't keep up.

TIP: Once you are online, slow down. The rush thing is only in CMH. Check everything twice before you take off. To many people were canned for dumb stuff like fuel caps and doors not being closed or for spelling as bad as mine.

 

[needapayraise]

.........

 

[viper548]

Dude, if you can't do visuals in a stinking RJ how do you expect to do visuals in a prop that is going faster than an RJ while on final? That's all they do at Hairnet is visuals. If it's 1000-3, I was doing a visual, or a contact if able.

I don't know what kind of prop they're flying at Airnet that is going faster than an RJ on final. I don't know about the ERJ but the CRJ is usually doing around 145 knots on final

 

[flighter]

Is it just me or did I miss something. I have seen this type of post before and lots of guys chime in and tell the person to keep going and don't give up, which is all good. The one thing i don't see is anyone chime in who has been in this person's shoes and actually made it back to a 121 outfit. It is always a friend or I have heard of. I would really like to hear from someone who has beeen though what this person has gone though and post on this board. I am thinking you are just all trying to make the person feel better which is fine. I have never worked 121 but I have been told by people who do that once you flunk out you are done which is sad.

 

[Filkster]

Call Mesa or Pinnacle.

 

[J32driver]

but I have been told by people who do that once you flunk out you are done which is sad.

NOT true. I personally know 2 people that either got fired from a 121 carrier in initital sim training, or IOE, and have found homes with other part 121 regional outfits. One of those guys just interviewed at very popular LCC. There can be life after getting dumped by a 121 regional.

 

[PCL_128]

A friend of mine was asked to resign from Pinnacle and got a 121 job again after not too long. He flew 135 for about a year and a half before getting the next 121 job, but he was pretty low time anyway when he left here. It can certainly be done.

 

[Diesel]

flybet3 i might be a dooschbag but what i said is the truth.

ANY IOE capt has to answer to his boss along with all the paperwork that's involved why a guy failed. If he failed they will usually give him a second chance based on attitude and avoiding a lawsuit.

So that means that at least TWO ioe guys had to fail him plus explain to their boss why the company just spent a ton of money on a guy who PASSED training but couldn't get it together on the line.

More often than not an IOE failure during ioe comes from many little mistakes or just not moving forward. Whenever I had to fail anyone as IOE i considered it a personal failure on my part to let it get to that point. I allways wanted to make sure that I had done everything possible to train the guy/gal into line flying.

But it comes down to the fact it is not a popularity contest and boxes need to be checked.

I forgot to add that I did ioe for NJA. While not 121 ioe we had our own challenges. Like it being my first time to an airport and the ioe student. A lot of circling approaches and a lot of working together to get all involved done. So i'm sure you'll bring that up to.

 

[coolyokeluke]

If you think IOE Capt's are looking to wash guys out then you don't have much expereince or understanding of any 121 companies goals......making guys/gals leave cost money! There is more to this guys story......no pilot has ever been fired for a bad visual pattern. IOE is just that...initial operating experience....with HELP and INSTRUCTION!! I don't know any IOE Capt's that won't go the extra mile trying to help a guy or gal that is truly trying to "cooperate and graduate"....maybe some of the IOE Capt's on here would like to chime in!!! I have over 4500 flying hrs as an instructor/Evaluator in jets.....I think I know what cooperate and graduate means in terms or ability and attitude.......Clearly this was not a major and if you can't make the grade in the regionals in IOE then you are not going to make it in the majors....and don't think the majors are going to waste time on someone who has problems in training....IOE problems are RED FLAGS.....if you don't understand this then your youth and inexperience are truly showing...... Yes, I spent 20+ years flying in the Air Force where standards are very,very high.... and then I spend time in a regional waiting in the pool for a major so I know the difference.
Bottom line is if you can't cut training (and let's face it, IOE is training) in a small jet or prop...then the record you have established will not be a plus when any airline. My comment about toast was not a cheap shot....it was a realistic comment......and if not you tell me how many guys you know that work for a major that busted IOE at a regional.

Your comment about toast in huge caps was a cheap shot. I personally know one individual who made it after a failed 121 training experience. I also mentioned my very sharp roomate/sim partner's experience with Training and seeing his classmates wash at Trans States. He was a very reliable type so I took his word at face value. In my training class we only had one person in 16 wash, and the training dept. was justifibily proud of their success rate. I believe in the link between a training department's professionalism and the success they have.
Personally my experience during IOE was very positive, I learned a lot. I don't doubt that they wouldn't have passed me if they didn't observe competency.
As far as "if you can't make the grade in the regionals you're not going to make it in the majors", well I happen to agree; people from my airline who have moved on to fly the heavy iron expressed how similiar the training was to what we encountered. I'm not sure if you're implying that the standards at the majors are higher.
And as far as standards in the military, yes I know they are very high. But why all the complaining about fighter pilot types who know it all on this board? Maybe some of it is jealosy, but I believe it goes deeper than that. You get good at what you practice, and military flying is different from airline stuff in many ways. The standards on our checkride were ATP standards, it was pretty cut and dry. Maybe the regional where you were employed wasn't that way, I don't know.

 

[SiouxHockeyFan]

I hate to say it, but airlines do fire people after they invest all that money into a pilot. Sometimes they don't even give a reason. Just ask the July 4 class from Air Willy. We can all tell you some stories. My advice is to keep instructing and keep applying and when you get the time go 135 if you can't get an airline gig. good luck!

 

[mullet]

... anyone chime in who has been in this person's shoes and actually made it back to a 121 outfit.

Just flew with an FO who was let go from Eagle.

 

[FN FAL]

Just flew with an FO who was let go from Eagle.

I know for a fact that a guy that washed out from 135 IOE was hired by a regional right out of the wash out.

It might not be the same as a 121 firing, but still...if you can't make 135 IOE in a Caravan, what the frikken, over?

 

[rightrudder]

I hate to say it, but airlines do fire people after they invest all that money into a pilot. Sometimes they don't even give a reason. Just ask the July 4 class from Air Willy. We can all tell you some stories. My advice is to keep instructing and keep applying and when you get the time go 135 if you can't get an airline gig. good luck!

Air Willy won't let you go unless you don't play nice with others, are dishonest (lied on application) or you are not competent. There was a guy in my class that passed his checkride, only to be fired prior to ioe because he was a royal pain in the a$$. Another guy in my class got lots of extra help and lots of chances to succeed, but ulltimately he wasn't ready for the job and washed out. If you don't make it here, there's a good reason.

 

[PadFull'oTrim]

More to the story....

I spent a few years as a checkairman at a 'well known' regional, and I can say that if this is not a flamebait post, you had bigger issues than just one visual approach.

I have had IOE students do some very stupid and sometimes dangerous stuff in the plane, I eventually passed each student after more instruction. They all had one thing in common, they were making simple, stupid mistakes that I was able to correct and replace with proper procedure and technique making them competent and safe pilots.

If your record says you failed out for a visual, consider yourself lucky that they didn't put the laundry list of your problems in your official record.

Much like failing a checkride, you have issues across the board but may only 'bust' one item in a big way.

I'd consider applying everywhere else and during the interview turn the experience into a positive, if you go in syaing that you were screwed, they'll see right thru it, I know I would......

best of luck,

Pad.....