Final Agreement reached

[Sacha]

Yup. You got me ....Ex Eastern Valujet guy and damn proud of it. If you've got a few minutes I'd like to tell you about the DC9. Or as we call it "The 9".

Lets start off with flight controls, and the importance of the 'Porkchop' .....

Hey, I didn't mention Eastern you did..... But you seem awfully defensive and touchy about that now that you mention it. Back to the original question. You compare our in house union to convicted felon and animal torturer,Michael Vick. You make numerous posts bashing ALPA not only at AirTran but at many other airlines. So again, where does that leave you? Stay on question now.
Keep the target in sight. Ty feel free to join in here. It sounds like you are going to be miserable no matter how this turns out. I assume a 98% strike vote wasn't because you were estatic about life at Airtran.


Not to mention how fun it's going to be for our F/O's who are senior to your Captains hear on Takeoff roll......"listen son, back when I was at "Critter"......

 

[dicko]

Hey, I didn't mention Eastern you did..... But you seem awfully defensive and touchy about that now that you mention it. Back to the original question. You compare our in house union to convicted felon and animal torturer,Michael Vick. You make numerous posts bashing ALPA not only at AirTran but at many other airlines. So again, where does that leave you? Stay on question now.
Keep the target in sight. Ty feel free to join in here. It sounds like you are going to be miserable no matter how this turns out. I assume a 98% strike vote wasn't because you were estatic about life at Airtran.

The Eastern quip was a joke Sacha. You seem to have some strong feelings about Eastern and Valujet. Probably for good reason, however you do seem to enjoy a good rant in that regard

I'll try to keep the "target in sight for you"; I'd be absolutely livid if my union threatened to do those things to another pilot group. Considering the fact that those actions would be post Arbitration I'd find it even more appalling. Throw in the "Golden Rule" concept and we have a nice case of hypocrisy brewing.

It's just my opinion, and No I'm not a fan of ALPA. Have you researched the DFR lawsuit and TWA ? You seem to be somebody who has some strong feelings about responsibility. If that's indeed the case, you'll be disgusted as well.

I held SWAPA in pretty high regard prior to these events. I still do to a certain extent, and hope that all of this is a bargaining position for leverage. However the tactics that were suggested go well beyond anything that I think is fair or reasonable. As I said, If my union actually acted on them to gain even more seniority I'd think it was immoral. Just my opinion.

It's time for my medicine,

Cheers,

D.

 

[dicko]

For the record; When Eastern shut down I was lying in the mud pissing on myself to stay warm. On the other side of the planet. I was also too young to hold an ATP.

I did not work for Valujet or Eastern.

 

[slaquer5]

Lear
I asked one of the reps what happens if the mec votes this down. I was told it goes to arbitration. We don't have time for more negotioations due to the voting time line. Swapa needs 45 days. I was also told mediation was a waste of time. Both sides would go back to their original proposals.[/QUOTE]

Both true. neither side is willing to give, time would be better spent preparing for arbitration.

This straight from our NC.

Would be nice if we all could just get along.

 

[Sacha]

I figured it was joke, but with some of those guys you never know. I'm not sure if you have been at other Alpa carriers or not, but my feeling as an ex-alpa guy at a few other carriers I can say that in my experience,what happened at each company was 90% due to what our guys made of the union internally and the external situations beyond our control i.e. Mgt. Economy and the like. I never looked for or believed in Alpa national to ride in on their white horse and make life fair....life ain't fair. I guess it can be compared in some ways to how people view our government. I look for the basics like a strong military, basic local police etc. Not looking for cradle to grave coddling. That's the way I look at our union, alpa or whomever you choose. I have three of my closest friends who were TWA, so I am very familiar with their situation. But I have friends,family and mentors who were Ozark, Mohawk, PSA, Bonanza, Republic and on and on and like TWA, everyone has their merger acquisition stories. They are all different and yet, they are all basically the same. I think the Jetblue guys made a mistake. Starting an in house union is expensive and time consuming and we had Herb Kelleher who didn't make the process miserable. We have had good guys running our union and some who were not so competent but all in all the guys are pretty good. It is up to us. We sure has hell shouldn't be compared to that scumbag Vick..(we have a bunch of German shepherds and Jack russels so Im touchy about that)

 

[Sacha]

For the record; When Eastern shut down I was lying in the mud pissing on myself to stay warm. On the other side of the planet. I was also too young to hold an ATP.

I did not work for Valujet or Eastern.

Thanks for your service. My Dad was a B17 guy which he is lucky to have survived, but my Uncle was 82nd Airborne and he spent many a night pissing on himself to keep warm. He was closer to his buddies(the few that survived anyway)than my Dad was with his. Not that I could have made it through the training but if I had to do it over I would have liked to have given the Airborne a shot. Oh well.

 

[Daddy]

What is DFR?

 

[Music]

What is DFR?

Duty of Fair Representation.

 

[Daddy]

Thanks

 

[Lear70]

Let's use DAL/NWA as an example. It means that once the Integrated Seniority List was issued, that any items DALPA negotiates on or for our behalf must stand up to scrutiny if later challenged to not fairly represent NWA pilots' best interests.

If there's any question, an individual or a group can file a DFR suit in Federal Court (not the grievance process). If DALPA's actions are found to be hostile, retaliatory, or discriminatory towards NWA pilots alone, it could cost DALPA hundreds of millions.

Unions go well out of their way to avoid even the appearance of a DFR violation. I believe one of your female pilots ended up with a sizable out-of-court settlement for something similar fairly recently...?

 

[slaquer5]

Let's use DAL/NWA as an example. It means that once the Integrated Seniority List was issued, that any items DALPA negotiates on or for our behalf must stand up to scrutiny if later challenged to not fairly represent NWA pilots' best interests.

If there's any question, an individual or a group can file a DFR suit in Federal Court (not the grievance process). If DALPA's actions are found to be hostile, retaliatory, or discriminatory towards NWA pilots alone, it could cost DALPA hundreds of millions.

Unions go well out of their way to avoid even the appearance of a DFR violation. I believe one of your female pilots ended up with a sizable out-of-court settlement for something similar fairly recently...?

Not sure what female your talking about . Maybe your reference is a female at AT. You seem to get your facts wrong a lot I have noticed .

 

[boomlrd]

Bet you'd fly struck work, too.

Hey Ty, I work for Spirit, we struck, no one crossed the line unlike your high seniority scabs! So rethink that!

 

[texman]

Tex,

With all due respect, we're going to have to agree to disagree.

Thats understandable. We need to get this done to grow. But no SWA person should be harmed more than needed to be.

 

[madjack]

Rejecting a negotiated deal (one in which the CEO was involved, you know the bottom line person), a deal which offers EVERY AAI pilot a significant raise, a more stable career at a well established carrier, well that is a ballsy move and may just be the posturing of a few internet olympians...heck it may not pass on the SWA side...total POS that disregards DOH and has many AAI pilots making more than the SWA pilots...

 

[Ty Webb]

Hey Ty, I work for Spirit, we struck, no one crossed the line

I know that . . . And no one flew your struck work.

That's why your post was even more egregious.

 

[Empennage]

Let's use DAL/NWA as an example. It means that once the Integrated Seniority List was issued, that any items DALPA negotiates on or for our behalf must stand up to scrutiny if later challenged to not fairly represent NWA pilots' best interests.

If there's any question, an individual or a group can file a DFR suit in Federal Court (not the grievance process). If DALPA's actions are found to be hostile, retaliatory, or discriminatory towards NWA pilots alone, it could cost DALPA hundreds of millions.

Unions go well out of their way to avoid even the appearance of a DFR violation. I believe one of your female pilots ended up with a sizable out-of-court settlement for something similar fairly recently...?

Single carrier status ......

 

[Daddy]

I believe one of your female pilots ended up with a sizable out-of-court settlement for something similar fairly recently...?

I'm pretty sure her suit got tossed

 

[Flying the Line]

SWAPA doesn't control the 717 rates. SWA does, and they want a negotiated settlement. Anything less and I don't think the company will want to negotiate higher rates.

 

[On Your Six]

Thats understandable. We need to get this done to grow. But no SWA person should be harmed more than needed to be.

Why not? Your CEO decided to do this deal. An arbitrator could decide who could go where on the list, and then you can decide who got "harmed.". The AT guys will have to decide that, so it's out if your hands.



OYS

 

[On Your Six]

This is just ME! Well I feel that your all about ME comments are exactly what we don't want at SWA. Everyone has to take a hit in this deal. " I can't take a 3.91 year seniority loss". Cry me a river!

I am upset with how some of the AT guy's are now in the position of what more can we get! All the SWA guy's blew a f-ing top when the on the CUSP AT fo's got a longevity pay bump. Now we have AT captians that have said "I just want to keep my seat", but can't take a seniority hit.

I am sorry but being a SWA JR FO and very grateful to work here, all I see is "ME" on the AT side. I just don't get it! Can't you people look down the road and see the future. I made sacrifice to be part of SWA, so do YOU! It's called success sharing. If you don't like the QOL and $ you will get at SWA, Quit!

Lear 70 is the only level headed person on this board and I wouldn't mind
pulling his gear, but not for some punk b eatch entitled AT Capt!


GK AND SWA ARE BEING MORE THAN GENEROUS!

Cry me a river, you are getting desperate. You did make sacrifices to go to SWA----- 10,000 of them!! You also have had to fly through EL Paso too, which day after day could be pure torture. Maybe the AT guys should just give in, and give up everything. At least Oldmanpilot is ready and willing. Now that guy is OLD, and easily persuaded.



OYS