Final Agreement reached

[dicko]

Minus a 40% pay cut, no chance to ever cross to the SWA side, absorbs 100% of all furloughing, no seat protections, no FO A scale plus pay, no me -too clause, no ATL one way fence, other than that, yes, same as the deal now.

Your boss has already told you that he's going to integrate. So you're going to have to try do all of that stuff to members of your own union.

How are do you think you'll get around a DFR lawsuit when that list is read to a judge ?

It's pretty disgusting that any union would even consider that just for a seniority bump. It sounds like Michael Vick is running the show over there.

 

[Sacha]

So you compare our in house union to a thug that tortures animals. Then on the Jet blue thread you are bashing ALPA saying they are not doing anything for you as you list the ALPA mergers that have not been perfect in your eyes. So where does that leave you? Teamster? Seiu? Inhouse? What? If you are a Valuejet guy, I understand since you have been lost since birth but you sound plum out of options.

 

[dicko]

So you compare our in house union to a thug that tortures animals. Then on the Jet blue thread you are bashing ALPA saying they are not doing anything for you as you list the ALPA mergers that have not been perfect in your eyes. So where does that leave you? Teamster? Seiu? Inhouse? What? If you are a Valuejet guy, I understand since you have been lost since birth but you sound plum out of options.

Yup. You got me ....Ex Eastern Valujet guy and damn proud of it. If you've got a few minutes I'd like to tell you about the DC9. Or as we call it "The 9".

Lets start off with flight controls, and the importance of the 'Porkchop' .....

 

[Music]

This is just ME! Well I feel that your all about ME comments are exactly what we don't want at SWA. Everyone has to take a hit in this deal. " I can't take a 3.91 year seniority loss". Cry me a river!

I am upset with how some of the AT guy's are now in the position of what more can we get! All the SWA guy's blew a f-ing top when the on the CUSP AT fo's got a longevity pay bump. Now we have AT captians that have said "I just want to keep my seat", but can't take a seniority hit.

I am sorry but being a SWA JR FO and very grateful to work here, all I see is "ME" on the AT side. I just don't get it! Can't you people look down the road and see the future. I made sacrifice to be part of SWA, so do YOU! It's called success sharing. If you don't like the QOL and $ you will get at SWA, Quit!

Lear 70 is the only level headed person on this board and I wouldn't mine pulling his gear, but not for some punk b eatch entitled AT Capt!


GK AND SWA ARE BEING MORE THAN GENEROUS!

Tex,

With all due respect, we're going to have to agree to disagree.

 

[Ty Webb]

Yup. You got me ....Ex Eastern Valujet guy and damn proud of it. If you've got a few minutes I'd like to tell you about the DC9. Or as we call it "The 9".

Lets start off with flight controls, and the importance of the 'Porkchop' .....

Don't forget to start your sentence with, "Back at Eastern . . . ".

Also, during the takeoff roll, make sure to push forward on the yoke really hard " . . . because that's how we did it on the Electra".

 

[Sacha]

Yup. You got me ....Ex Eastern Valujet guy and damn proud of it. If you've got a few minutes I'd like to tell you about the DC9. Or as we call it "The 9".

Lets start off with flight controls, and the importance of the 'Porkchop' .....

Hey, I didn't mention Eastern you did..... But you seem awfully defensive and touchy about that now that you mention it. Back to the original question. You compare our in house union to convicted felon and animal torturer,Michael Vick. You make numerous posts bashing ALPA not only at AirTran but at many other airlines. So again, where does that leave you? Stay on question now.
Keep the target in sight. Ty feel free to join in here. It sounds like you are going to be miserable no matter how this turns out. I assume a 98% strike vote wasn't because you were estatic about life at Airtran.


Not to mention how fun it's going to be for our F/O's who are senior to your Captains hear on Takeoff roll......"listen son, back when I was at "Critter"......

 

[dicko]

Hey, I didn't mention Eastern you did..... But you seem awfully defensive and touchy about that now that you mention it. Back to the original question. You compare our in house union to convicted felon and animal torturer,Michael Vick. You make numerous posts bashing ALPA not only at AirTran but at many other airlines. So again, where does that leave you? Stay on question now.
Keep the target in sight. Ty feel free to join in here. It sounds like you are going to be miserable no matter how this turns out. I assume a 98% strike vote wasn't because you were estatic about life at Airtran.

The Eastern quip was a joke Sacha. You seem to have some strong feelings about Eastern and Valujet. Probably for good reason, however you do seem to enjoy a good rant in that regard

I'll try to keep the "target in sight for you"; I'd be absolutely livid if my union threatened to do those things to another pilot group. Considering the fact that those actions would be post Arbitration I'd find it even more appalling. Throw in the "Golden Rule" concept and we have a nice case of hypocrisy brewing.

It's just my opinion, and No I'm not a fan of ALPA. Have you researched the DFR lawsuit and TWA ? You seem to be somebody who has some strong feelings about responsibility. If that's indeed the case, you'll be disgusted as well.

I held SWAPA in pretty high regard prior to these events. I still do to a certain extent, and hope that all of this is a bargaining position for leverage. However the tactics that were suggested go well beyond anything that I think is fair or reasonable. As I said, If my union actually acted on them to gain even more seniority I'd think it was immoral. Just my opinion.

It's time for my medicine,

Cheers,

D.

 

[dicko]

For the record; When Eastern shut down I was lying in the mud pissing on myself to stay warm. On the other side of the planet. I was also too young to hold an ATP.

I did not work for Valujet or Eastern.

 

[slaquer5]

Lear
I asked one of the reps what happens if the mec votes this down. I was told it goes to arbitration. We don't have time for more negotioations due to the voting time line. Swapa needs 45 days. I was also told mediation was a waste of time. Both sides would go back to their original proposals.[/QUOTE]

Both true. neither side is willing to give, time would be better spent preparing for arbitration.

This straight from our NC.

Would be nice if we all could just get along.

 

[Sacha]

I figured it was joke, but with some of those guys you never know. I'm not sure if you have been at other Alpa carriers or not, but my feeling as an ex-alpa guy at a few other carriers I can say that in my experience,what happened at each company was 90% due to what our guys made of the union internally and the external situations beyond our control i.e. Mgt. Economy and the like. I never looked for or believed in Alpa national to ride in on their white horse and make life fair....life ain't fair. I guess it can be compared in some ways to how people view our government. I look for the basics like a strong military, basic local police etc. Not looking for cradle to grave coddling. That's the way I look at our union, alpa or whomever you choose. I have three of my closest friends who were TWA, so I am very familiar with their situation. But I have friends,family and mentors who were Ozark, Mohawk, PSA, Bonanza, Republic and on and on and like TWA, everyone has their merger acquisition stories. They are all different and yet, they are all basically the same. I think the Jetblue guys made a mistake. Starting an in house union is expensive and time consuming and we had Herb Kelleher who didn't make the process miserable. We have had good guys running our union and some who were not so competent but all in all the guys are pretty good. It is up to us. We sure has hell shouldn't be compared to that scumbag Vick..(we have a bunch of German shepherds and Jack russels so Im touchy about that)

 

[Sacha]

For the record; When Eastern shut down I was lying in the mud pissing on myself to stay warm. On the other side of the planet. I was also too young to hold an ATP.

I did not work for Valujet or Eastern.

Thanks for your service. My Dad was a B17 guy which he is lucky to have survived, but my Uncle was 82nd Airborne and he spent many a night pissing on himself to keep warm. He was closer to his buddies(the few that survived anyway)than my Dad was with his. Not that I could have made it through the training but if I had to do it over I would have liked to have given the Airborne a shot. Oh well.

 

[Daddy]

What is DFR?

 

[Music]

What is DFR?

Duty of Fair Representation.

 

[Daddy]

Thanks

 

[Lear70]

Let's use DAL/NWA as an example. It means that once the Integrated Seniority List was issued, that any items DALPA negotiates on or for our behalf must stand up to scrutiny if later challenged to not fairly represent NWA pilots' best interests.

If there's any question, an individual or a group can file a DFR suit in Federal Court (not the grievance process). If DALPA's actions are found to be hostile, retaliatory, or discriminatory towards NWA pilots alone, it could cost DALPA hundreds of millions.

Unions go well out of their way to avoid even the appearance of a DFR violation. I believe one of your female pilots ended up with a sizable out-of-court settlement for something similar fairly recently...?