Final Agreement reached

[ASADFW7]

Dicko, I do not care where you sit, there are a hell of a lot more first officers to deal with at SWA that won't put up with your crap, if you actually get to fly with us.

 

[Lear70]

The reason pay matters to seniority is bc we all base our career choices on our best educated guess on pay, stability, bases, and type flying.-
Stop pretending it doesn't matter- that's a lie-

Speak for yourself there, chief. Back when I was a 727 Captain and we found out our company was going out of business, I had job offers at places that paid more (Netjets) but took a regional (PCL) by CHOICE because I wanted to build my 121 PIC time so I could make it to a Major carrier.

I got interview offers from both Northwest and a 2nd bite at United while I was at AirTran; I didn't go to either interview. I liked my job at AirTran, my quality of life, the people I flew with, I thought it would be "the next Southwest" as a fast up-and-coming operator with low costs, brand new jets, and I was having fun. Same reason I never re-updated my application at Southwest when the window re-opened and my 6 months had passed from my last interview.

After 3 years of making the same money flying Lears and Falcons that I would have as an AAI F/O but flying nights, weekends, getting 9 days off a month, and hardly seeing my family as a result, I have an even GREATER respect for my quality of life over money, which is the reason I bid max days off and weekends off in MCO, regardless of what line credit that gives me.

Sometimes people make choices based SOLELY on their quality of life. Despite how much more income they MIGHT make in the future. It's fine that you don't do that. I have.

Tell you what... I'll give you every DIME of my increased income from this deal and you give me relative seniority so that I can keep my quality of life and upgrade when my number would come up (about 6-7 more years instead of 12-15). How's that?

Here's one last thing for you to ponder. We offered SWA to not pay us SWA rates until we transitioned over the line in training and INSTEAD give ALL that money from now 'til then to the SWA pilots in exchange for even HALF of where we'd be with Date of Hire (a 4-5% decrease in the relative seniority hit we take). It was over $100 Million directly to your pilots. SWAPA said no. Do you know why? Because your Negotiating Committee wanted seniority over money.

Guess it's not all about the money.

 

[Lear70]

Anybody figured out yet that both sides are being played by SWA?

The cheapest, easiest solution has been presented, convoluted beyond imagination.

Who really wins, who really pays for this deal in the end?

Mr. Smith will now come and assimilate me back into the matrix.

You said it... I didn't.

 

[Lear70]

And by the way, Wave, you asked me where I'd be with Date of Hire?

I'd go from the 26% decrease in relative seniority to a 12% decrease in relative seniority. Nearly 1,500 people less above me on the list, at least 7-8 years closer to upgrade (half my current, projected time), and holding the same Quality of Life I hold now in my same base.

Everyone's in a different spot. 1/4 of our F/O's at the bottom would still be at the bottom. 1/4 of our CA's at the top would still be in roughly the same place they are now. Everyone else does considerably better.

 

[Sacha]

Lear 70

After 6 years of contract negotiations that went nowhere, were you one of the 98% that voted to strike? On one hand you tell us life was so great that you didn't want to go anywhere else like United, Northwest or Southwest but then you are so angry that you voted to shut the airline down. That's an interesting way of looking at your career to say the least. I am afraid Im throwing the BS flag.

 

[Ty Webb]

Sacha-

UPS, Fedex and Hawaiian have taken strike votes. Did that make those jobs less desirable, or did it make them more desirable, in the long run?

During SLI arbitration, did the fact that NWA had taken many strike votes over the decades, and actually struck, have any effect whatsoever on the arbitrated SLI ? Of course not.

Btw, you guys should probably consider yourselves lucky that the Merger Announcement came before we got closer to being released by the NMB, or the difference between your pay rates and ours could have been much smaller, and you would have lost that bargaining chip altogether.

 

[Whine Lover]

A few points to ponder:

( A relative of mine is an 8 year Airtran Captain.)

We were discussing yesterday his absolutely crappy schedules ( redeyes etc. ) even after 8 years and being in the top 1/3 of the seniority list.

Apparently, he will lose about 36% of his Seniority with the current proposal.

It dawned on me that SWA doesn't even DO redeyes, and that they have schedules that allow AM and PM bidding so you are not "all over the clock" so to speak, and as well can actually plan a commute. It seems that SWA has more flexibility in scheduling, bidding,trading, days off, etc.

SO...It seems to me, that.... even with a loss of relative Seniority, there is a very good possibility that his QOL will increase as far as schedules, commute, and lifestyle are concerned. (?)

Discuss.


YKMKR

 

[jonjuan]

Btw, you guys should probably consider yourselves lucky that the Merger Announcement came before we got closer to being released by the NMB, or the difference between your pay rates and ours could have been much smaller, and you would have lost that bargaining chip altogether.

Truer words have never been said. A merger announcement 3 months later and we'd be looking at a completely different ball of wax.

 

[Fubijaakr]

....you would have lost that bargaining chip altogether.

Personally, I'd stop reinforcing the idea that pay even IS a bargaining chip. It is not. It is only in the context of seniority of Captain upgrade time.

 

[Sacha]

Ty,

Put the strike vote in context with his story. Not too many fedex or ups guys bailing to go elsewhere unless they can't handle night cargo. They are using muscle to improve already good contracts because they can. Big difference. If Airtran is in a parallel universe with Fedex, Northwest etc.then why do we have 200 or more former Airtran guys at SWA? How many former SWA guys do you have at Airtran?....None. Why? I regularly fly with several former Airtran guys so I have heard in detail what it is like. That's why I threw the BS flag. After further review the call still stands. Will this matter in arbitration?
Nope. If there are some pilots here that can't see the BS in Lears story, I can assure you an arbitrator sure as hell won't.