Final Agreement reached

[On Your Six]

Actually, that's what many of us are worried about.

That we take this deal, take a HUGE hit on our seniority, takes about 12-15 years to upgrade, but during that time, Southwest merges with Alaska or Hawaiian (or even jetBlue), those airlines push this thing to arbitration, they get DoH (or even relative), and now we never upgrade.

Ever. Never. Career F/O's. And there's nothing in the agreement that guarantees Southwest could prevent that or be successful like this SIA with future mergers.

There's risks for us that aren't limited to just "non-integration" concerns. Not that they aren't also a risk for arbitration (they are), but the idea of that scenario above simply sucks. But at least we'll have one thing
SWA pilots after this. All of us will hope that Southwest never, ever, merges
with another airline ever again.

I don't think you'd have to worry about merging with AK. Other airlines might have a bigger interest in keeping things status quo. I'm sure plenty are looking at AK as we type.


OYS

 

[On Your Six]

I love all the fear- guess what? Somebody somewhere will upgrade. But you guys act like a bunch of regional pilots who think you'll actually be happier when you upgrade. At least the youngsters have a need for PIC time- this mentality at the majors is just dumb.

Lear- there you go again- ALL of your FOs are going to get Air Tran captain money as an FO- so once again, your point is retarded by logic. Is steering the tiller that important to you guys?
I know you don't believe me, but I AM a moderate - guys are pissed here - they view- and I can't argue- that every trannie gets their upgrade when they get our pay. And we get nothing but paper seniority- unexercisable and even furloughed out of order-

Sounds like you're picking a side Lear.

Somebody will upgrade, but your retirement schedule is very slow for the next ten years, maybe 150 a year? That could mean stagnation. And what is this about junior SWA FOs upgrading before senior AT FOs? If that is true, that doesn't smell right.



OYS

 

[$$$4nothin]

Better pay, better work rules, more days off, more base choices, better corporate culture, better QOL over all. Who gives a damn if you lose %32 seniority. SW isn't going anywhere and another merge is very unlikely. Hey Airtran guys; just enjoy your winning lotto ticket, and stop complaining. I forgot to add. If you can't live on 150k as an FO and getting 15-18 days off a month you should really reevaluate your life.

 

[Lear70]

Lear, one of the reasons a week or so ago that you gave for the delay in MEC decision was to obtain protections from SWA on transfering jets, and not taking pilots along with those jets. Keeps SWA from taking jets without pilots or slow rolling the pilots.

In reading the AT LOA, I don't see any protection other than furlough protection. Do you see any protection preventing SWA from moving jets and taking fewer than flying those jets?

That's exactly correct.

There is still NO minimum number of crews per aircraft that have to be transitioned with each aircraft that's taken across the "partition".

The Merger Committee failed to get that item. That and about 3 other items that were not obtained basically mean that, in many people's opinion, the SIA did not realize the promises promoted to our MEC and our pilot group in the AIP.

There's a very heated debate going on about that right now, both behind closed doors between the MEC members and online in our private forum. If I had to guess, I'd say the majority of the MEC doesn't have the cajones to vote it down, and it'll go to vote. Once it goes to vote, I think it's too close to call right now. Depends on how the road shows are received, IMHO.

 

[SWA/FO]

:crying: ugh! will it ever end.

 

[jonjuan]

:crying: ugh! will it ever end.

It will once Bloch produces the list.

 

[Empennage]

It will once Bloch produces the list.

shortsighted

Think implementation

 

[zippy32]

Lear-Do you care to answer my question?

 

[SWA/FO]

It will once Bloch produces the list

.

right.

Hey, those tranny red-eyes are real popular huh? Just checking the loads on swalife.com LAX-BWI.

 

[dicko]

SW isn't going anywhere and another merge is very unlikely.

You sir, are Fkin idiot.

Review history. I'd be laughing at you .... if my arse wasn't destined to be sitting 3 feet from yours.

I'm praying that you're actually a mongoloid sitting in a basement with a computer.


Edited: Oh thank god. He's a juice drinking wannabe. Praise little baby jesus.

 

[Lear70]

It's like you are using an argument only when it suits you. So do the SWAPA guys own the benefit of the great payraise? Do the AAI guys own the jets, and thus the captains seats? I think it would need to be a consistant argument one way or the other.

Is this the question you're referring to?

If it is, no one "owns" anything. In arbitration, it's a SENIORITY list integration. Not pay, not benefits, not my current quality of life. Nothing else. Except seniority.

Therefore, I expect a negotiated deal to leave much of the other things out of the equation and concentrate on what is fair IN TERMS OF SENIORITY at the end of the day. The bottom line is that none of us are going to agree on where that is. To attempt to find agreement on this forum on a topic so volatile is an exercise in futility. The best that can be obtained is "perspective" on where everyone else is coming from.

At the end of the day, many of us may not like what comes down the pipeline, one way or the other, but the only thing I have control of is my own attitude: how I treat my coworkers, how I treat our customers, and how I treat my family at the end of every trip. That's my work ethic.

YMMV

 

[waveflyer]

The reason pay matters to seniority is bc we all base our career choices on our best educated guess on pay, stability, bases, and type flying.-
Stop pretending it doesn't matter- that's a lie-

 

[jonjuan]

The reason pay matters to seniority is bc we all base our career choices on our best educated guess on pay, stability, bases, and type flying.-
Stop pretending it doesn't matter- that's a lie-

Stil haven't told us where you "did your time" and worked harder than most holding out for the dream job.

 

[dicko]

Stil haven't told us where you "did your time" and worked harder than most holding out for the dream job.

Three of the pilots I know at SWA came straight out of a J32 on their first interview. All of them are great people and utterly unremarkable.

"Worked harder" is a myth that makes people feel better when it takes them 5-10 years to get hired. It makes them feel special.

 

[On Your Six]

Better pay, better work rules, more days off, more base choices, better corporate culture, better QOL over all. Who gives a damn if you lose %32 seniority. SW isn't going anywhere and another merge is very unlikely. Hey Airtran guys; just enjoy your winning lotto ticket, and stop complaining. I forgot to add. If you can't live on 150k as an FO and getting 15-18 days off a month you should really reevaluate your life.

More bases to move to, you say? What if they have lived in ATL for years? The old lady's parents live there? Better QOL? On reserve forever? Can you guarantee NOT another merger? $150k a year is great until you can't sell your house, have 2 mortgages after you have to buy an extra home in Juarez, Mexico (across from the new crew base in El Paso, it's cheaper to live in Juarez these days) and then have to buy "friends" (bodyguards) just to get to work each day in ELP. That $150k is gone before you know it. Hasta la vista, baby!



OYS

 

[scoreboardII]

Anybody figured out yet that both sides are being played by SWA?

The cheapest, easiest solution has been presented, convoluted beyond imagination.

Who really wins, who really pays for this deal in the end?

Mr. Smith will now come and assimilate me back into the matrix.

 

[On Your Six]

shortsighted

Think implementation

Think binding. Then think USAPA. GK wont like it.


OYS

 

[dicko]

Anybody figured out yet that both sides are being played by SWA?

The cheapest, easiest solution has been presented, convoluted beyond imagination.

Who really wins, who really pays for this deal in the end?

Mr. Smith will now come and assimilate me back into the matrix.

Does this have anything to do with your casual enquiry regarding the status of Alaska poolies, and whether they have to re interview ?

 

[scoreboardII]

No, I have a bud who was a day or three from starting class and they said thanks, don't come.

 

[Whataburger]

More bases to move to, you say? What if they have lived in ATL for years? The old lady's parents live there? Better QOL? On reserve forever? Can you guarantee NOT another merger? $150k a year is great until you can't sell your house, have 2 mortgages after you have to buy an extra home in Juarez, Mexico (across from the new crew base in El Paso, it's cheaper to live in Juarez these days) and then have to buy "friends" (bodyguards) just to get to work each day in ELP. That $150k is gone before you know it. Hasta la vista, baby!



OYS

Geez, WOULD YOU PLEASE BRING YOUR B-777 and B747-4 RATE UP TO OUR B-717 RATE, YOU'RE KILLING us!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!