Final Agreement reached

[dh82dvr]

Hey Juan,

What kind of payrate should we negotiate for the 717?

I would say 737 rate + 10%. It is a more technologically advance machine after all!!

 

[redflyer65]

If the arbitor hands down a 5-10yr fence on the 717, almost no SW guys will be affected by that.

 

[birdman1]

No vote from me. The seniority list is horrible, people do not need to know anymore.

In two years, let us know how the unemployment line looks. My advices to the trannies, don’t trust unions like ALPA, and do not bite the hand that feeds you. This is the opportunity of a life time that's worth millions, and you are about to throw it all away over seniority. Also, seniority is not for life...seniority is only good until your company goes away, such as bankruptcy, or sold off.

 

[On Your Six]

In two years, let us know how the unemployment line looks. My advices to the trannies, don’t trust unions like ALPA, and do not bite the hand that feeds you. This is the opportunity of a life time that's worth millions, and you are about to throw it all away over seniority. Also, seniority is not for life...seniority is only good until your company goes away, such as bankruptcy, or sold off.

Hilarity ensues, again! Threats from scared SWA FOs. So, when will SWA go away, or be sold off? There is a Process Agreement which includes arbitration as a possibility. Vote your conscious, it's up to you!


OYS

 

[dh82dvr]

In two years, let us know how the unemployment line looks. My advices to the trannies, don’t trust unions like ALPA, and do not bite the hand that feeds you. This is the opportunity of a life time that's worth millions, and you are about to throw it all away over seniority. Also, seniority is not for life...seniority is only good until your company goes away, such as bankruptcy, or sold off.

How much seniority would you give up for the same pay raise?

 

[frqntflyr]

I'd give up all my seniority for an upgrade right now.... where do I sign up?

 

[LearLove]

In two years, let us know how the unemployment line looks. My advices to the trannies, don’t trust unions like ALPA, and do not bite the hand that feeds you. This is the opportunity of a life time that's worth millions, and you are about to throw it all away over seniority. Also, seniority is not for life...seniority is only good until your company goes away, such as bankruptcy, or sold off.

"PSSSST...

hey you, ATL based pilot, over here in this dark alley....

I got some good stuff, you know you want to try it...

All the cool kids at SWA say it's the best...

Come on now, you want to be like the cool kids right? Just try it, a little hit, it won't hurt...."

 

[Ty Webb]

In two years, let us know how the unemployment line looks. My advices to the trannies, don’t trust unions like ALPA, and do not bite the hand that feeds you. This is the opportunity of a life time that's worth millions, and you are about to throw it all away over seniority. Also, seniority is not for life...seniority is only good until your company goes away, such as bankruptcy, or sold off.

Wow . . . . . I'll bet similar things were said in Miami in '89.

 

[Tripower455]

Wow . . . . . I'll bet similar things were said in Miami in '89.

Ironically, by some of the same folks that are being acquired by SW now! And complaining about it!

 

[Sacha]

They have had some practice. The Eastern scabs used to be pretty cocky out on the line until the day Lorenzo was able to abrogate the ALPA contract. 40% pay cut overnight. Thanks for scabbing! Now get to work! Boy, talk about some long faces. I was on a hotel van with an Eastern scab crew in West Palm. Our crew was laughing, happy and having a good time and the scab crew looked like they were going to start crying. Oh well. Life is full of choices.

 

[Muppets]

They have had some practice. The Eastern scabs used to be pretty cocky out on the line until the day Lorenzo was able to abrogate the ALPA contract. 40% pay cut overnight. Thanks for scabbing! Now get to work! Boy, talk about some long faces. I was on a hotel van with an Eastern scab crew in West Palm. Our crew was laughing, happy and having a good time and the scab crew looked like they were going to start crying. Oh well. Life is full of choices.

WTF? What are you comparing? We have had practice! Dude...we have about 10 guys left on our sen. list from that Eastern scab era. Do some research before you drink a couple and start posting. BTW...65 yet?

 

[Sacha]

Dude...the few Eastern scabs on your list. Not the 98% of the Air tran guys!!! I admire you for having to put up with them. I have 15 years left unless the wife gets the big promotion. On the other hand, Southwest has been fun place to work. At least till now. Hopefully this will be temporary. Oh and research. I was one of the lead guys on the Scab tracking committee in ATL. during the strike. I probably know more about each and every Eastern guy on your list working and retired than you would ever know. So chill out. No one wants all of us to be happy more than me. My scab illustrations are just anecdotal nothing more.

 

[birdman1]

How much seniority would you give up for the same pay raise?

How much are willing to give up not to end up on the streets one day? There are a lot of people on the street with no job due to a horrible economy that could lead to a depression. My point is that generally most people do not have sympathy for airline pilots they consider over paid. The judges, lawyers, and arbitrators will look at how much you potentially will make from this deal and ask…they voted this down because they were losing 32% of their seniority? They are complaining about not having the weekend off so they can drive there RV to the college football games? They will be like…sorry but fock you and your RV. I got friends who are unemployed that would give there left nut for the opportunity that sits in front of you.

 

[Ty Webb]

How much are willing to give up not to end up on the streets one day? There are a lot of people on the street with no job due to a horrible economy that could lead to a depression. My point is that generally most people do not have sympathy for airline pilots they consider over paid. The judges, lawyers, and arbitrators will look at how much you potentially will make from this deal and ask…they voted this down because they were losing 32% of their seniority? They are complaining about not having the weekend off so they can drive there RV to the college football games? They will be like…sorry but fock you and your RV. I got friends who are unemployed that would give there left nut for the opportunity that sits in front of you.

The issue here is a fair seniority integration, not the imaginary issues your imaginary friends have. Try to stay on topic, huh?

And save the scary bedtime stories for your kids . . . . or we can all tell our scary stories . . . . including the one about the scary, demented arbitrator with a teal-green hook for a hand, who had gotten food poisoning from a bad corndog at the Texas State Fairgrounds.

 

[boomlrd]

I hope the trannies pull a Midwest or Frontier, then SWA may take Spirit instead, we like a real pay raise and would do it for the staple!

 

[Ty Webb]

I'll bet you'd say the same thing about flying struck work, too.

 

[Ty Webb]

I hope the trannies pull a Midwest or Frontier, then SWA may take Spirit instead, we like a real pay raise and would do it for the staple!

Bet you'd fly struck work, too.

 

[Fubijaakr]

I hope the trannies pull a Midwest or Frontier, then SWA may take Spirit instead, we like a real pay raise and would do it for the staple!

Guess what? If the AAI deal goes away, the next target would be Alaska, not Spirit. I guess you didn't hear that SWA was sniffing around our butts before the AAI deal went down, but our stock price was too high.

And if the SWA f/os don't like a relative or ratioed seniority list with AAI they'd REALLY hate a DoH list with AS

Bet you'd fly struck work, too.

I'm guessing you hit the nail on the head, Ty.

 

[Lear70]

Guess what? If the AAI deal goes away, the next target would be Alaska, not Spirit. I guess you didn't hear that SWA was sniffing around our butts before the AAI deal went down, but our stock price was too high.

And if the SWA f/os don't like a relative or ratioed seniority list with AAI they'd REALLY hate a DoH list with AS

Actually, that's what many of us are worried about.

That we take this deal, take a HUGE hit on our seniority, takes about 12-15 years to upgrade, but during that time, Southwest merges with Alaska or Hawaiian (or even jetBlue), those airlines push this thing to arbitration, they get DoH (or even relative), and now we never upgrade.

Ever. Never. Career F/O's. And there's nothing in the agreement that guarantees Southwest could prevent that or be successful like this SIA with future mergers.

There's risks for us that aren't limited to just "non-integration" concerns. Not that they aren't also a risk for arbitration (they are), but the idea of that scenario above simply sucks. But at least we'll have one thing in common with SWA pilots after this. All of us will hope that Southwest never, ever, merges with another airline ever again.

 

[400ADude]

Bet you'd fly struck work, too.

You work at the biggest struck work airline there is. Sh!t..... its whole founding pilot force was from the 89 debacle and you still do have a lot of them on the top part of your seniority list. Those guys are going to be sh!t on and screwed with pretty hard when they come over.

 

[ephull]

Less than 25 of those left here, get your facts straight.

 

[ASADFW7]

If AAI pilots have concerns about never upgrading, so do many more SWA pilots, who actually have been on SWA property longer than most of your captains longevity a AAI. It is all nuts.

 

[DontFeedTheBear]

I know one fact...

The economy is tanking and I have an employer asking me if I want an extra
60 grrr. Now where did I put that calculator?????

Remember this, the 60 grrr pay raise is not guaranteed should the economy really tank. I know SWA has an excellent track record with it's pilots, but as always past results do not guarantee future performance! Seniority however is FOREVER!!!

So how would you feel if the economy tanks, paycuts happen or even furloughs (and don't think they can't!) Now how would that seniority position feel???

 

[waveflyer]

I love all the fear- guess what? Somebody somewhere will upgrade. But you guys act like a bunch of regional pilots who think you'll actually be happier when you upgrade. At least the youngsters have a need for PIC time- this mentality at the majors is just dumb.

Lear- there you go again- ALL of your FOs are going to get Air Tran captain money as an FO- so once again, your point is retarded by logic. Is steering the tiller that important to you guys?
I know you don't believe me, but I AM a moderate - guys are pissed here - they view- and I can't argue- that every trannie gets their upgrade when they get our pay. And we get nothing but paper seniority- unexercisable and even furloughed out of order-

Sounds like you're picking a side Lear.

 

[zippy32]

This is really is a confusing ordeal.

The SWA pilots claim that they are bringing a huge pay raise for the AAI guys and that the only thing to offset the windfall is a bump in seniority.

The AAI guys counter that it isn't the SWAPA pilots that pay those rates, it's SWA the company and they are not taking anything from the SWAPA pilots. And furthermore, they are bringing all their own planes and they deserve to keep their captain seats because, afterall, they are bringing those planes with them and 50 or so orders.

So the logic falls me here. If the AAI pilots (and the Ambiguously Delta Duo) claim that it's SWA, not SWAPA, that is bringing the pay raise. Then, wouldn't logic say that it is AirTran the company and NOT the AAI pilots bringing the jets. Therefore, the AAI pilots have no right to the captains seats and should only hold whatever their seniority can hold.

It's like you are using an argument only when it suits you. So do the SWAPA guys own the benefit of the great payraise? Do the AAI guys own the jets, and thus the captains seats? I think it would need to be a consistant argument one way or the other.

 

[Kharma Police]

This is really is a confusing ordeal.

The SWA pilots claim that they are bringing a huge pay raise for the AAI guys and that the only thing to offset the windfall is a bump in seniority.

The AAI guys counter that it isn't the SWAPA pilots that pay those rates, it's SWA the company and they are not taking anything from the SWAPA pilots. And furthermore, they are bringing all their own planes and they deserve to keep their captain seats because, afterall, they are bringing those planes with them and 50 or so orders.

So the logic falls me here. If the AAI pilots (and the Ambiguously Delta Duo) claim that it's SWA, not SWAPA, that is bringing the pay raise. Then, wouldn't logic say that it is AirTran the company and NOT the AAI pilots bringing the jets. Therefore, the AAI pilots have no right to the captains seats and should only hold whatever their seniority can hold.

It's like you are using an argument only when it suits you. So do the SWAPA guys own the benefit of the great payraise? Do the AAI guys own the jets, and thus the captains seats? I think it would need to be a consistant argument one way or the other.

It's much easier if you draw a Venn diagram.............

 

[SWA/FO]

So how would you feel if the economy tanks, paycuts happen or even furloughs (and don't think they can't!) Now how would that seniority position feel???

or if your airline is bought, sold or goes out of business. Seniority = not so much. $$$$ pays bills and helps you start side business.

 

[scoreboardII]

Lear, one of the reasons a week or so ago that you gave for the delay in MEC decision was to obtain protections from SWA on transfering jets, and not taking pilots along with those jets. Keeps SWA from taking jets without pilots or slow rolling the pilots.

In reading the AT LOA, I don't see any protection other than furlough protection. Do you see any protection preventing SWA from moving jets and taking fewer than flying those jets?

 

[scoreboardII]

This is really is a confusing ordeal.

The SWA pilots claim that they are bringing a huge pay raise for the AAI guys and that the only thing to offset the windfall is a bump in seniority.

The AAI guys counter that it isn't the SWAPA pilots that pay those rates, it's SWA the company and they are not taking anything from the SWAPA pilots. And furthermore, they are bringing all their own planes and they deserve to keep their captain seats because, afterall, they are bringing those planes with them and 50 or so orders.

So the logic falls me here. If the AAI pilots (and the Ambiguously Delta Duo) claim that it's SWA, not SWAPA, that is bringing the pay raise. Then, wouldn't logic say that it is AirTran the company and NOT the AAI pilots bringing the jets. Therefore, the AAI pilots have no right to the captains seats and should only hold whatever their seniority can hold.

It's like you are using an argument only when it suits you. So do the SWAPA guys own the benefit of the great payraise? Do the AAI guys own the jets, and thus the captains seats? I think it would need to be a consistant argument one way or the other.

Well said, you can't have it both ways, if you say you bring the jets, we do then in fact bring the pay. I would argue, we bring the pay as it is OUR CBA, those jets? I don't see any AT pilots name on the titles.

 

[zippy32]

It's much easier if you draw a Venn diagram.............

Um, ok. Do you want to offer a serious reply? Or perhaps Lear or Ty or someone else?