Fedex plane runs off runway at ORD

[Lake Alice]

We fly jets heavy, we fly them safely, and we have a crapload of flights everyday into some of the busiest and loneliest places on earth.

But you aren't crashing airplanes at the loneliest places on earth. You are crashing planes in the same environment as the rest of us.

I still believe making the hiring process like a fraternity causes the wrong people to get hired

The accident/incident records speak for themselves and for the training. And before some MD11 driver wakes up and tells me its because "the aircraft is hard to land" refer back to the accident/incident records.

 

[Lufthansa]

Magnum et al,
You are absolutley correct, everyone should be held to the same standards. No where in my writing did I condone what her actions were. What she willfully chose to do is wrong on many fronts, morally and professionally. I understand your points very well. Could this one mistake that she made in the past predict whether or not she has a complete disregard for authority and will put her crew in danger in the future? Maybe. Apparently the "risk takers" in that hiring department felt it was worth the risk to find out. I am not defending either position.

I do indeed wish everyone was held to the same standard. Unfortunately the standards vary depending on many factors and we all know it. Different standards are set for gender, some for race, for social status and so on and so forth. I was pointing out how unfortunate it was that this person was singled out, in my opinion, because she was female and she chose to try to defend herself from injustices she perceived as being carried out against her. Notice I wrote injustices she perceived, not injustices I perceived.

The sexist attitude is perpetuated when men, and I am not suggesting you Magnum, decide to soothe their egos with the suggestion that he was passed over for a flying position because of equal opportunity. Maybe this is the case sometimes, however unfortunate. If you look at Vt's posts you will see that he clearly states his opinion is that she obtained her position simply because of her gender. It is not until after he tries to incite Capt. Megadeth, further showing his ugliness toward women, that he tries to hide his original intent by pointing out how she deliberately disobeyed her superior's orders.

So as I see it, you missed the point. No where did I defend this woman for her actions, I simply pointed out VT's thinly veiled sexist attitude and that perhaps he should look inward before speaking.

I certainly did not mean to strike a chord with so many of you.

 

[stonewall]

It is not until after he tries to incite Capt. Megadeth, further showing his ugliness toward women,

VT has tried to incite several people on other threads...is that an example of showing his ugliness toward males? Looks to me like he's a shining example of fairness and equal opportunity!

perhaps he should look inward before speaking.

Good advice, but flawed. I'm not perfect in many areas of my life...should I avoid criticizing someone for disobeying orders because I shoplifted a six pack when I was 15? Moral judgements are okay...say it with me...it's okay to judge. There is a corollary to the whole "Do not judge...." statement. It's "...lest ye be judged." I follow lawful orders and don't have sex with my subordinate's wives...I'm happy to be "judged" in that area.

 

[stonewall]

The accident/incident records speak for themselves and for the training.

So is it the fraternity hiring or the training? Which is it?

 

[Stifler's Mom]

I just don't see how it's anyone's business who someone sleeps with in the first place.

Oh Capt., you sound like my type of woman. I bet we could have some real fun on the layover. In fact, I'll probably give you the best 3 minutes of your life.

But I need to know. Do you like to spoon? Because if so, I'm not into that. I prefer to just roll over and fall asleep when I'm done.

 

[HA25]

One more thing V70T5.....tell me honestly.....you have NEVER cheated on anyone?

I can tell you honestly that after leaving the Army in 1993 I had no sexual relations with anyone until meeting my wife in 1996 and while I'm tempted, I've never even flirted.

That said, it's not about the sex.. it's about the type of person that would take the risks she took with the commanders and USAF's eyes on her. Remember, she was the poster child for women in USAF aviation and she was not really someone that can lay low. She took risks that I would NEVER have taken with my career, and that shows a character flow that I don't want to see in the left seat of an MD-11 one day (freight or otherwise) in the back.

I guess I'm old school (why I picked the caveman avatar), but then looking at this forum with all of the avatars of women's asses, and the way guys drool at the prospects of women's tits they've not even seen (you), much less having one in the cockpit with them so they can stare at her tits makes me wonder what ever happened to our values? Dignity for women, and marriage?

Sure we can get excited about the other sex, but there are limits, and if you're single they're not the same as if you're married. More over, if you're an member of the armed forces, you are subject to a lot of rules (like the FARs) that while onerous, must be followed.

 

[HA25]

Oh Capt., you sound like my type of woman. I bet we could have some real fun on the layover. In fact, I'll probably give you the best 3 minutes of your life.

But I need to know. Do you like to spoon? Because if so, I'm not into that. I prefer to just roll over and fall asleep when I'm done.

Point made..

 

[capt. megadeth]

I can tell you honestly that after leaving the Army in 1993 I had no sexual relations with anyone until meeting my wife in 1996 and while I'm tempted, I've never even flirted.

That said, it's not about the sex.. it's about the type of person that would take the risks she took with the commanders and USAF's eyes on her. Remember, she was the poster child for women in USAF aviation and she was not really someone that can lay low. She took risks that I would NEVER have taken with my career, and that shows a character flow that I don't want to see in the left seat of an MD-11 one day (freight or otherwise) in the back.

I guess I'm old school (why I picked the caveman avatar), but then looking at this forum with all of the avatars of women's asses, and the way guys drool at the prospects of women's tits they've not even seen (you), much less having one in the cockpit with them so they can stare at her tits makes me wonder what ever happened to our values? Dignity for women, and marriage?

Sure we can get excited about the other sex, but there are limits, and if you're single they're not the same as if you're married. More over, if you're an member of the armed forces, you are subject to a lot of rules (like the FARs) that while onerous, must be followed.

Your wife should consider herself lucky being with someone who doesn't cheat. I don't cheat either and unfortunately, I feel that you and I are in the minority. I agree with the rest of your post BTW. I don't agree with disobeying orders in the service but I still don't think it's anyone's business who one sleeps with.

BTW, thanks for sticking up for me (somewhat) on the SWA thread.

 

[RP 04]

It's not cheating unless you get caught...

 

[HA25]

BTW, thanks for sticking up for me (somewhat) on the SWA thread.

no problem, I just remember when this place was a bit more civil. It's lame especially when people address a woman they don't even know as a "hag".

Fly safe..

 

[Falconjet]

Mega: You might want to take a look at the UCMJ sometime. It is pretty specific about who's business it is when someone in the service commits adultery.

That is something alot of people don't understand about the sacrifices of serving in the military. The UCMJ is not some guideline that you follow if its convenient or you agree with it. You obey it or suffer the consquenses, whether you are male or female.

Sleeping with a subordinate's spouse is about the lowest thing you can do in the military, so yeah it is a lot of people's business when that happens. It is a federal crime to do so when you are married and in the service.

That being said, the lady has paid the price for her indiscretions, and was discharged from the service under less than honorable conditions. If UPS wants to hire her despite that it is their right.

I do think though that it would be tough to argue that they don't look the other way on such things more than when they are looking for someone other than white males to hire, as stigma free white males are easier to find. Again, I'm not saying its right or wrong, but to discount the possibility is to ignore reality.

Back to the real topic, we haven't had an FCIF or anything on this incident so I don't think there was too much to it. When there is a bonafide accident or incident we usually get an FCIF fairly quickly at least telling us that it happened.

FJ

 

[Occam's Razor]

It's not cheating unless you get caught...

Um...yes it is.

If you stand up in front of your family and most of your friends and make a promise, in the form of marriage vows...you oughta keep it. If you can't, break it off.

By the same token, if you take an oath of office, you oughta stick to it. If you can't...bail.

If your commanding officer gives you specific instructions, and you don't like 'em...you should make it clear then and there.

Says it right on the paper: "...special trust and confidence..."

 

[stonewall]

Um...yes it is.

If you stand up in front of your family and most of your friends and make a promise, in the form of marriage vows...you oughta keep it. If you can't, break it off.

By the same token, if you take an oath of office, you oughta stick to it. If you can't...bail.

If your commanding officer gives you specific instructions, and you don't like 'em...you should make it clear then and there.

Says it right on the paper: "...special trust and confidence..."

Word.

 

[Purpledog]

Were we ever permitted to see the Enders Safety Study? I'm sure since the pilots were banned from seeing it, the "F" word was all over it.

 

[JimNtexas]

I can name 3 military people who were in my units who were run out of the service for less than what that B-52 girl and one of our former Presidents did. They are:

Captain A: Given an Article 15 and forced to resign for sleeping with a female airman (He was married).

Major H: Had two female airmen working for him at HQ ESC. Campaigned for a BZ promotion and airman of the century for the one he was sleeping with. The other one complained. His household goods were on the way to Washington where he had a Pentagon assignment pending. Assignment canceled, forced to resign at the 15 year point.

Lt General J: Caught with his own Monica in the form of a married female NCO on his immediate staff. Reduced one grade and forced to retire.

One that wasn't sexual, but interesting. Captain K, a prior enlisted EWO who was greatly liked by our squadron commander. K decided he was too busy to atttend the required annual instrument ground school, so he intercepted the attendance roster and added his name to the bottom. Forced to resign with 16 years of service. K then joined a west coast reserve C-141 squadron as a navigator. His crew elected to fly their C-141 into New Orleans, where they used the goverment bread van they took with them to drive to a sporting event. People noticed, there was press coverage and an investigation. It turned out that K had faked training recording to claim that he was qualified for air drops when he wasn't. I'm pretty sure he was kicked out of the reserve.