Farken Ag Pilot!

[The_Russian]

I think this thread blew up faster than any PFT thread in the history of FlightInfo.

Guys frickin' relax before someone has a stroke.

 

[TDTURBO]

Yeah Rat him out.. Thats good.


Now I'm not exactly old school, and am probably in the age group with the majority of you (26) or older, but when I started flying my instructor told me about reg's and rules etc.., but, the only one he emphasized on was not in the regs or available at the FSDO.

NEVER RAT OUT ANOTHER PILOT. PERIOD.

Immelman, that kind of talk is grounds for dismissal...

I am from the "old school" and I am not sure what to do, I doubt I would do anything unless he was seen doing it again, that is, a head on.

I know a guy that flys without a medical, plus he can't fly for sh*t and he is nuts on the ramp and my CFI budy wants to turn him in, I told him to think real hard about that one too.

 

[Fury220]

Like said, never rat out another PILOT!

I agree somewhat. "Ratting out" is being a tattletale every time you see something remotely unsafe or against the regs. There is a BIG difference between that and taking action against a dude who's committed a HUGE SAFETY ERROR (i.e.: the guy who's driving drunk all over the road at 2am).

In this case, I wouldn't report the guy right away. I'd have a man to man talk about how his flying endangered everyone that day. If he would be a man and fess up to what he did wrong, I'd let it go. Hopefully, you've convinced him to be a better aviator on his next (and concurrent) flight/flights.

If you see him pulling sh!t like this again, though, it's time to take action.


The bottom line is this: EVERYONE (and I mean this) has been unsafe in their aviation careers a time or two in the past. That's not excusible, but it shouldn't ruin anyone's career if no one got hurt. CHRONIC disregard for regulations and the safety of your fellow man, however, NEEDS to be addressed by the authorities.

My 2 cents.

 

[Fury220]

I think this thread blew up faster than any PFT thread in the history of FlightInfo.

Guys frickin' relax before someone has a stroke.

SHUT YOUR PIE HOLE, RUSSIAN!!!


Haha, I'm just kidding. You're right, this has escalated into a class A debate... oh well...

 

[DC4boy]

Go to him before you go to the authority's. That how it should be in life as well as aviation.


See and avoid, F' the radio. YOU're in control, go around, go wide, whatever. It really was not that unsafe. Least I didnt think so. Then again, I look in the pattern

 

[Metro752]

Kinda like not ratting out the guy who pulls out of a bar at 1am in front of ya, nearly hit em, and the you're behind him for the next 60 miles, 50 of which are on an interstate and he's all over the road....................

right?



Just leave the guy alone, hopefully he won't kill someone..........someone you love........


Hey we can go a step further, and really go overboard.............how about not doing anything about stinky Jihad Joe who just wanted to learn how to take off. Just a crazy guy with a lot of money, right?

Like said, never rat out another PILOT!

To be honest, that made me laugh, He does have a point.

 

[VampyreGTX]

Go to him before you go to the authority's. That how it should be in life as well as aviation.


See and avoid, F' the radio. YOU're in control, go around, go wide, whatever. It really was not that unsafe. Least I didnt think so. Then again, I look in the pattern

The part that was unsafe, is according to Matt's description was, during the takeoff and the ag on short final, the ag may have come into 'view' after the plane taking off already rotated. The angle of attack may have been enough to block the view of the ag plane, depending on the altitude and distance. None-the-less, the departing plane had to perform an evasive manuever when it was low and slow.

 

[mattpilot]

For any doubts about my version, feel free to call the 0F8 FBO. Kream also confirmed my story, as he stated, he heard it from another person who was involved in this little situation we had.


As for reporting him? Na... not my thing. I only rant about such things. But I did post his tail number - in case anyone knows him, feel free to share the link to this thread to him.

 

[Xav8tor]

Long time lurker, first time post. I have a "little" bit of experience in aviation safety and regulatory compliance. The ag pilot was unsafe and broke the regs. Anyone else in the pattern has a right to be upset. Their lives were put at risk. Even if his actions had been permitted by the regs, if a midair resulted, you can bet he would have been liable in tort. A similar incident happened a few years ago at a small uncontrolled field served by a regional with 30 pax on board (near midair collision). For those defending the ag pilot, do you still feel the same in that scenario? I hope not.

As for the radio in an ag plane, I guess Tomcat pilots are in too loud an environment, too busy, whatever, to have/use one as well. Yes, see and avoid is the rule, but radios are cheap, lives are not. What possible excuse does anyone have for not using all feasible means to maintain merely a reasonable level of safety, much less a high one?

 

[wingnutt]

What possible excuse does anyone have for not using all feasible means to maintain merely a reasonable level of safety, much less a high one?

...is being a meathead not excuse enough

 

[avbug]

What do you do if someone does that to you in a car on the road? You get really pi$$ed yell and probably use a gesture that we all know well.

No perhaps that's what you do. Some of us are a little above that...gave it up along with childhood years ago. You should try the same.

Long time lurker, first time post. I have a "little" bit of experience in aviation safety and regulatory compliance. The ag pilot was unsafe and broke the regs.

Apparently very little experience. Exactly which regulation did this pilot break? And this, based on the second hand reports of a low time inexperienced pilot?

avbug,

Recently the respect I once had for you has been going down the drain, and you've just hit rock bottom. Usually you're the first one to advocate safety, what happened to this here?

Ooooh, you're killing me. I've lost your respect? However will I sleep at night? Get over it.

I'm a big advocate for safety...including the fact that any pinheaded yahoo that thinks the radio spots traffic is a flaming idiotic safety hazard. For many of the "professionals" who responded here to condemn without knowing anything more than what an inexperienced low time pilot posted in anger...it only confirms what I already well know. 90% of the pilots out there aren't worth their weight in dung. Seems more than a few have weighed in here.

According to the only information we have, the ag pilot did *not* remain clear and give way to aircraft conforming the the traffic pattern.

Not at all. What we have here is rampant speculation. Many, many times I've cut ahead of traffic that had eons to land...rather than trying to stall out snaking around the pattern behind them, I went ahead and landed. Did I do something dangerous? Not hardly. I was practically tied down and home in bed before they ever made it to the runway.

The original poster seems so confident that an ungodly disaster was imminent that by his own admission he began making radio calls on behalf of the ag pilot...a ridiculously stupid act, but one that he felt compelled to do. Far outside his own privilege...yet he did it. And here the lemmings that have posted have climbed aboard the same mindless stupid mentality, clamering to hammer the ag pilot for something that not one of them has seen.

This very afternoon I landed an airplane in Bermuda Dunes, California. I went around after a king air decided to ignore my radio calls and enter the runway, departing the opposite direction I was landing. continued north and east, turned around, and landed. Not a big deal. Over the next hour, I listened to pilot after pilot whine, argue, cry, and kibbitz on the radio, making accusations about "you cut me off," and this nasty remark and that. Each one a fractional or corporate professional aviator, biting and seething at one another, each fighting over who got to get to the runway first. Not a whole lot different than the story that mattpilot told, except no ag aviator as the scape goat here.

Such crap.

 

[wmuflyguy]

Some of us are a little above that...gave it up along with childhood years ago. You should try the same.

Ah...but you haven't gave up calling people "stupid" or talking down to them.

 

[Vector4fun]

Over the next hour, I listened to pilot after pilot whine, argue, cry, and kibbitz on the radio, making accusations about "you cut me off," and this nasty remark and that. Each one a fractional or corporate professional aviator, biting and seething at one another, each fighting over who got to get to the runway first. Not a whole lot different than the story that mattpilot told, except no ag aviator as the scape goat here.

Not much different from this webboard either...

Ah well, job security for us ATC types. Where's my striped shirt and whistle?

 

[aucfi]

The original poster seems so confident that an ungodly disaster was imminent that by his own admission he began making radio calls on behalf of the ag pilot...a ridiculously stupid act, but one that he felt compelled to do.

I'm a big advocate for safety...

Sounds like he was increasing safety to me by giving others a heads up. Hows that stupid?

 

[PCL_128]

Sounds like he was increasing safety to me by giving others a heads up. Hows that stupid?

Well, you see, avbug thinks that radios are nothing but a hindrence to his flying. He would prefer that everyone trust their eyeballs to finding the traffic. Nevermind the fact that all airplanes have huge blindspots and it's impossible to spot everyone. These newfangled radios are just too much for avbug.

 

[Xav8tor]

(Avbug)The reg(s) in part 91 broken, and the inapplicability of part 137 to the incident described, firsthand, by a pilot there, has already been correctly cited to you. Give me the same situation as a hypo, and my position is unchanged. Nobody, not even in an ultralight, has a good excuse (except for an emergency) for not having, and using, a radio in the pattern at field open to public use. Forget the regs and think SAFETY. If a midair had resulted between the ag plane and any other plane conforming to the pattern, regardless of the "see and avoid" concept, with the possible exception of a contributory negligence state (and I doubt that), a pilot who did that alleged would pay through his nose.

Perhaps I missed the point you are attemting to defend on a day I missed class in law school because I was consulting doing trial prep on a major crash case (one of many I've done). Or maybe I missed something at the many schools, seminars and conferences I attended while Director of Safety at two airlines. Then again, perhaps I was wrong when the same thing happened to me when I was flying a standard pattern (carrying paying, sked 121 pax) and was cut off on relatively short final by one of those hard-working above the law ag types with no radio who just had to get one more run in before the light/humidity/temp or whatever meant he had to wait until tomorrow. Finally, maybe I need to rethink everything and fold up my highly successful aviation safety related biz I have had for a decade now. There's more, but that "little" bit of experience should entitle me to express an opinion I usually get paid quite well to give should it not? Again, thank you for welcoming me to the board. I'll zip up now.

 

[DC4boy]

PCL, perhaps your're missing his point. Too many pilots use radios as a primary source of traffic collision avoidance. When in fact, there are still several airplanes and pilots that do not use radios, and behold, traffic remains separated.


Course, that probably does'nt happen much outside the cockpit of your RJ.......

 

[jbDC9]

Man, this thread is still going??? Perhaps we should all take a time out and go spend some quality time with our TCAS and Trunk Monkeys. Maybe take him for a walk, let him crap on the lawn... then he can fling it on the neighbors front door. Can't you just feel (and smell) the love from our little TCAS monkeys?

 

[mattpilot]

PCL, perhaps your're missing his point. Too many pilots use radios as a primary source of traffic collision avoidance. When in fact, there are still several airplanes and pilots that do not use radios, and behold, traffic remains separated.


Course, that probably does'nt happen much outside the cockpit of your RJ.......

Perhaps you are missing the point of this thread. It is not about not using the radio. It is about landing on a runway in the opposite direction while someone is taking off and others are in the pattern.

Oh btw... nice job of avoiding the RJ question - i'll give ya 10 points for that.

 

[100LL... Again!]

Avbug turned into a tool on this thread.

Any A-hole who lands directly opposite the flow of traffic just to shave a few minutes off his flight can kiss my rear end.

Avbug's ultra-liberal interpretation of the Ag rules apparently gives him permission to be discourteous and conduct operations that are of questionable safety. You pull that crap with a regional aircraft coming the other way and cause a near miss, and I bet Mr. FAA is going to take an entirely different view that YOU about just what regulations you are entitled to dismiss.


Ever try to teach an old spray pilot to fly IFR by the way? I have, and it is a royal pain. There's a reason why a large number of them should stay safely below the rest of us.