"Fair" treatment for "experienced" pilots comes home to roost?

[Mamma]

Interesting....

Everyone looks out for himself.. which is how this country, culture and economy work.

Suddenly a group, Age65 guys "look out for themselves" and the harmed group, Age 60 is pissed caused Age 65 looked out for themselves over Age 60. But I don't see the Age 60 guys looking out for Age 65 guys.

There is a difference in HOW people look out for themselves. Some work hard and plan accordingly. Some take shortcuts and cheat. Some stab others in the back because all they care about is themselves. Some do illegal things and go to jail. Some actually care about others and consider the ramifications of their actions before they proceed. There is a huge difference in how people look out for themselves and that is the distinction here. And I think you meant to say "I don't see the Age 65 guys looking out for anyone but themselves." The proof was UF saying that this is about money and getting 3000 pilots each $1 million for something they do not deserve.

 

[~~~^~~~]

Can anyone argue against justice?

It's mostly all about money!

So if ALPA, APA, and the DOT/FAA have to pay for their wrongdoing, why shouldn't they?

There are about 3,000 pilots affected who will be expecting about $1,000,000 each.

OK, I understand you are taking a Devil's advocate position here.

But I can argue against "justice" and against the Plaintiff's own best interests.

First, the DOT/FAA are protected by sovereign immunity. The US taxpayers are not going to pay $3,000,000,000.00 unless you can prove a deliberate government conspiracy to harm you and prove your damages. If you could sue the government, how many would line up to sue the armed service branches for allowing their kids to get killed? There are reasons for judicial protections afforded our nation.

Second, ALPA and the APA do not even have your attorney's fees on a three billion dollar award. You will discover through your litigation that ALPA does not have the cash to pay a handful of your plaintiffs and what money does exist is offshore, tied up un AFL-CIO affiliated insurance equities. (if there was an upside to prior DFR litigation, it is that the unions got good at making themselves judgement proof)

This is an interesting legal question and probably will get your Counsel face time in front of the Supreme Court, which is a lawyer's way of becoming living legend. Your lawyer probably also has you and your buddies paying his current fees and costs, plus contingency in the event that a dollar ever gets paid.

So, are you going to maintain a First Class medical while your case is on appeal? At a minimum this will take four years to work it's way through the Courts.

The only upside I see, is for your Counsel.

My humble advice is to save the money spent on attorneys and get a fun 135 job that allows you to enjoy retirement without the last chapter of your life being a war you can't win.

 

[atrdriver]

But I don't see the Age 60 guys looking out for Age 65 guys.

No, the age 60 guys are upset that the age 65 guys benefited from the rule their entire careers with no problems, but when their turn came threw a fit can cried how unfair it wall was. This was not a matter of the age 65 guys not looking out for the age 60 guys, it is a matter of them being selfish and petty. It is not now, nor was it ever the job of the age 60 guys to look out for the age 65 guys. They knew the rules of the game when it started.

 

[UndauntedFlyer]

My humble advice is to save the money spent on attorneys and get a fun 135 job that allows you to enjoy retirement without the last chapter of your life being a war you can't win.

I'm not really looking for a Part 135 job. I'm doing something that is OK. And really, I don't think that anyone will ever receive much of anything for the legal actions. It is possible to be reinstated somehow in airline work, but by the time that would happen we'll all be over age 65. But who knows, anything is possible.

Thanks for your reasonable and thoughtfull reply.

 

[Superpilot92]

AGE 60 was a KNOWN retirement age, shouldn't have been a surprise. You old guys enjoyed the retirements at 60 your whole careers but know want it changed because it benefited you now. Get lost and go enjoy your "retirement".
:uzi:Over 60 pilots uke:

 

[PlaneDrvr]

OK, I understand you are taking a Devil's advocate position here.

But I can argue against "justice" and against the Plaintiff's own best interests.

First, the DOT/FAA are protected by sovereign immunity. The US taxpayers are not going to pay $3,000,000,000.00 unless you can prove a deliberate government conspiracy to harm you and prove your damages. If you could sue the government, how many would line up to sue the armed service branches for allowing their kids to get killed? There are reasons for judicial protections afforded our nation.

Second, ALPA and the APA do not even have your attorney's fees on a three billion dollar award. You will discover through your litigation that ALPA does not have the cash to pay a handful of your plaintiffs and what money does exist is offshore, tied up un AFL-CIO affiliated insurance equities. (if there was an upside to prior DFR litigation, it is that the unions got good at making themselves judgement proof)

This is an interesting legal question and probably will get your Counsel face time in front of the Supreme Court, which is a lawyer's way of becoming living legend. Your lawyer probably also has you and your buddies paying his current fees and costs, plus contingency in the event that a dollar ever gets paid.

So, are you going to maintain a First Class medical while your case is on appeal? At a minimum this will take four years to work it's way through the Courts.

The only upside I see, is for your Counsel.

My humble advice is to save the money spent on attorneys and get a fun 135 job that allows you to enjoy retirement without the last chapter of your life being a war you can't win.

Fins,

You have a good understand of the law; maybe you can answer the question that I posed to this guy earlier on this thread.

The only way that I see that these guys can have a 'standing' to sue or get to court, is to 'challenge' the new law itself as being 'discriminatory.' And, in going so, if they are successful, and a Judge finds as such, a Federal Court Judge would have no choice but to 'strike down' the law. And, as you mentioned, would go to appeal and through the court system, but the end result, if successful would be the new law being thrown out, and would revert back to the previous/old law, (age 60).

Isn't that a likely possibility??

Unless they are merely just trying to go after alpa, apa, in a DFR suit; which DFR suits are very difficult to prove. And if they were over '60' at the time, were not an active/current member of alpa and would make a DFR suit even more difficult??

For what its worth.

PD

P.S. Personally, I do hope they are successful, as I said, the end result may in fact mean the new law will be 'overturned' and we are back to 'age 60'!!

 

[Fubijaakr]

BTW, F9 is not an ALPA carrier.

 

[~~~^~~~]

The only way that I see that these guys can have a 'standing' to sue or get to court, is to 'challenge' the new law itself as being 'discriminatory.' And, in going so, if they are successful, and a Judge finds as such, a Federal Court Judge would have no choice but to 'strike down' the law. And, as you mentioned, would go to appeal and through the court system, but the end result, if successful would be the new law being thrown out, and would revert back to the previous/old law, (age 60).

Isn't that a likely possibility??

My guess no. It is more likely that a restrictive provision of the law would be struck down rather than the entire Act.

You are right they would bring the case under an allegation that the Act was in violation of the 14th Amendment's Equal Protection Clause.

I have not seen what form this case is going to take... it will be interesting.

 

[ivauir]

Justice in this case will come forward in the courts.

Amazing. This geezers enjoyed the golden age of airline employment, whine their way into 5 more years of keeping the next generation down and then claim "justice" ... GMAFB

 

[CopilotDoug]

This is really funny. My personal life: One wife, one house, three children (youngest now age-17). No boats or girlfriends. Had an airplane to teach my middle kid to fly.

My career: One strike, two long furloughs, ESOP money lost, stolen pension in 11th hour. Yea, I guess you're right, I had it made.

And your part about how you plan to retire early, that's really funny. It just won't happen unless you get sick or something like that, or unless you have a horrible commute making life a living hell. But isn't that you're doing then. The point is you'll have a choice.

You won't win with this crowd, Undaunted. The senior guys may be from "Generation ME" but there is a strong representation on here from the "Entitlement Generation"

Apparently, this is putting a kink into alot of 'best laid plans'