"Fair" treatment for "experienced" pilots comes home to roost?

[PlaneDrvr]

OK, I understand you are taking a Devil's advocate position here.

But I can argue against "justice" and against the Plaintiff's own best interests.

First, the DOT/FAA are protected by sovereign immunity. The US taxpayers are not going to pay $3,000,000,000.00 unless you can prove a deliberate government conspiracy to harm you and prove your damages. If you could sue the government, how many would line up to sue the armed service branches for allowing their kids to get killed? There are reasons for judicial protections afforded our nation.

Second, ALPA and the APA do not even have your attorney's fees on a three billion dollar award. You will discover through your litigation that ALPA does not have the cash to pay a handful of your plaintiffs and what money does exist is offshore, tied up un AFL-CIO affiliated insurance equities. (if there was an upside to prior DFR litigation, it is that the unions got good at making themselves judgement proof)

This is an interesting legal question and probably will get your Counsel face time in front of the Supreme Court, which is a lawyer's way of becoming living legend. Your lawyer probably also has you and your buddies paying his current fees and costs, plus contingency in the event that a dollar ever gets paid.

So, are you going to maintain a First Class medical while your case is on appeal? At a minimum this will take four years to work it's way through the Courts.

The only upside I see, is for your Counsel.

My humble advice is to save the money spent on attorneys and get a fun 135 job that allows you to enjoy retirement without the last chapter of your life being a war you can't win.

Fins,

You have a good understand of the law; maybe you can answer the question that I posed to this guy earlier on this thread.

The only way that I see that these guys can have a 'standing' to sue or get to court, is to 'challenge' the new law itself as being 'discriminatory.' And, in going so, if they are successful, and a Judge finds as such, a Federal Court Judge would have no choice but to 'strike down' the law. And, as you mentioned, would go to appeal and through the court system, but the end result, if successful would be the new law being thrown out, and would revert back to the previous/old law, (age 60).

Isn't that a likely possibility??

Unless they are merely just trying to go after alpa, apa, in a DFR suit; which DFR suits are very difficult to prove. And if they were over '60' at the time, were not an active/current member of alpa and would make a DFR suit even more difficult??

For what its worth.

PD

P.S. Personally, I do hope they are successful, as I said, the end result may in fact mean the new law will be 'overturned' and we are back to 'age 60'!!

 

[Fubijaakr]

BTW, F9 is not an ALPA carrier.

 

[~~~^~~~]

The only way that I see that these guys can have a 'standing' to sue or get to court, is to 'challenge' the new law itself as being 'discriminatory.' And, in going so, if they are successful, and a Judge finds as such, a Federal Court Judge would have no choice but to 'strike down' the law. And, as you mentioned, would go to appeal and through the court system, but the end result, if successful would be the new law being thrown out, and would revert back to the previous/old law, (age 60).

Isn't that a likely possibility??

My guess no. It is more likely that a restrictive provision of the law would be struck down rather than the entire Act.

You are right they would bring the case under an allegation that the Act was in violation of the 14th Amendment's Equal Protection Clause.

I have not seen what form this case is going to take... it will be interesting.

 

[ivauir]

Justice in this case will come forward in the courts.

Amazing. This geezers enjoyed the golden age of airline employment, whine their way into 5 more years of keeping the next generation down and then claim "justice" ... GMAFB

 

[CopilotDoug]

This is really funny. My personal life: One wife, one house, three children (youngest now age-17). No boats or girlfriends. Had an airplane to teach my middle kid to fly.

My career: One strike, two long furloughs, ESOP money lost, stolen pension in 11th hour. Yea, I guess you're right, I had it made.

And your part about how you plan to retire early, that's really funny. It just won't happen unless you get sick or something like that, or unless you have a horrible commute making life a living hell. But isn't that you're doing then. The point is you'll have a choice.

You won't win with this crowd, Undaunted. The senior guys may be from "Generation ME" but there is a strong representation on here from the "Entitlement Generation"

Apparently, this is putting a kink into alot of 'best laid plans'

 

[atrdriver]

You won't win with this crowd, Undaunted. The senior guys may be from "Generation ME" but there is a strong representation on here from the "Entitlement Generation"

Apparently, this is putting a kink into alot of 'best laid plans'

Doesn't have a damn thing to do with entitlement. It has to do with their greed. I don't know how many times it has to be repeated before the pro-65 crowd gets it, but they KNEW the rules of the game when they started. They were fine with those rules as long as they benefited from them. Then, when the game was over for them, they decided that the rules were unfair, and wanted them changed. Gee, I wonder why I have no respect for them.

 

[~~~^~~~]

I'm not really looking for a Part 135 job. I'm doing something that is OK. And really, I don't think that anyone will ever receive much of anything for the legal actions. It is possible to be reinstated somehow in airline work, but by the time that would happen we'll all be over age 65. But who knows, anything is possible.

Thanks for your reasonable and thoughtfull reply.

It is possible now. Delta has re-hired several retired pilots. I helped one prep for his interview.

At issue is the demand to come back to the top of the list. A retro active remedy is going to be a problem as the whole rest of the airline gets displaced (in theory).

Some good friends & good pilots lost over a million when our airlines were acquired, our stock converted to DAL shares, and DAL tanked. A year later they were forced to retire. It stinks - Leo Mullin and Michelle Burns took their millions and ran.

The problem in winning this battle politically on the web board, is that the folks being asked to pay the price are not those responsible for your financial losses.

The average age of legacy 2007 new hires was around 36. These pilots have already lost years and are trying to make up time with pay rates below 50% of where they used to be.

If you were suing Parker, Tilton, Steenland, Mullin and Burns, I'd wish you luck. But in reality, you are suing me (as a taxpayer, ALPA member and pilot).

Respectfully,
~~~^~~~

 

[CopilotDoug]

The problem in winning this battle politically on the web board, is that the folks being asked to pay the price are not those responsible for your financial losses.

The average age of legacy 2007 new hires was around 36. These pilots have already lost years and are trying to make up time with pay rates below 50% of where they used to be.

If you were suing Parker, Tilton, Steenland, Mullin and Burns, I'd wish you luck. But in reality, you are suing me (as a taxpayer, ALPA member and pilot).

Respectfully,
~~~^~~~

That's a great point for the under-65 crowd.

 

[AlbieF15]

It will be interesting to me to see how hard the guys that are 60-61 fight for the RIGHT of that guy who is 63 to now come back in front of them.

That five year windfall at the very top suddenly is in jeopordy. So we will soon see if this was about "the right thing to do" or "I got mine..."

 

[UndauntedFlyer]

Be ready for the $hit to hit the fan at UAL by September 1. UAL is desparate for cash to pay a large note due in August. That's why they have been so agressively looking for a merger partner. Such a partner will likely not be found leading to the only result, a sell off.

 

[Uppercrust]

UAL and Airtranny should merge.:laugh::laugh:

 

[Whataburger]

This is really funny. My personal life: One wife, one house, three children (youngest now age-17). No boats or girlfriends. Had an airplane to teach my middle kid to fly.

My career: One strike, two long furloughs, ESOP money lost, stolen pension in 11th hour. Yea, I guess you're right, I had it made.

And your part about how you plan to retire early, that's really funny. It just won't happen unless you get sick or something like that, or unless you have a horrible commute making life a living hell. But isn't that you're doing then. The point is you'll have a choice.

Sounds like you've had a tough life. We should start interviewing in the fall if you want to apply.

 

[pipejockey]

We should start interviewing in the fall if you want to apply.

Thats just cruel!! You are heartless. Why would you want to have the guy endure that circus??

 

[AlbieF15]

Be ready for the $hit to hit the fan at UAL by September 1. UAL is desparate for cash to pay a large note due in August. That's why they have been so agressively looking for a merger partner. Such a partner will likely not be found leading to the only result, a sell off.

Morningstar reported they have been able to renotiate the terms on that particular situation. Still a mess...but apparently that iceberg will be dodged. Other ones?...who knows....

 

[Paul R. Smith]

Absolutely!! :uzi:Over 60 Pilots :smash:

Hey Superpilot,

How do you like Big Red?

Does NWA still have the dc-9-10 or are they all gone?

Do you fly with many "greenbook" guys that are still on the 9?