Extraneous useless radio phrases

[kf4amu]

Lighten up tightwad. Say what you wish/how you wish, and I will do the same. You don't like it?? Tough sh!t. I'm not gonna have a heart attack over someone's phraseology. Besides, I really don't pay much attention to others conversations to care or notice. Back to the AIM (need some TP). :beer:

I just dont want you running into my airplane because you turned to 240 instead of climbing to FL240. Or blocked a controller for 10 seconds 3 times while you're howdying and withyaing and ahhhhhing him to death and he couldnt move someone out of the way and got a deal.

Its a big deal, and it will eventually cause an incident/accident.

 

[Hollywood82]

You are the one trying to argue with the AIM. But I guess if all the guys at the majors do it, that makes it professional.

I can see why people shorten or substitute phrases to save time. Four point six vs four thousand six hundred is a great example. I do it too from time to time. Thats not the topic of this thread.

Continue viewing the AIM as optional and it will eventually bite you in the ass.

Sounds like you view it as optional.

The point is not whether these phrases are normal or common.

Actually that is the exact point I’m trying to make.

I wish phraseology was part of checkrides. Theres countless accidents/incidents were standard phraseology was not used.

Sounds like you’re reaching, find one accident that that was caused by someone using “with you”, or “4.6”. You can’t. There is no such accident. Quit trying to be dramatic.

The point is that all these things are written in the AIM for a reason. Safety. Take shortcuts for speed, or to "sound professional" (even though you sound completely opposite) and there will eventually be a miscommunication. With enough miscommunication you will eventually have an accident.

I can see why people shorten or substitute phrases to save time. Four point six vs four thousand six hundred is a great example. I do it too from time to time. Thats not the topic of this thread.

You’re just a big hypocrite.

I'm proud to have attended ERAU.

enough said

 

[kf4amu]

You will never improve until you recognize you have room to improve. My goal as a pilot is to continually improve. I'm not perfect, but when you dont even recognize you have a problem....you are dangerous. Keep telling yourself your nonstandard phraseology makes you a professional. The real professionals will be laughing.


The topic was not only about 4.6 or "with you". Those are minor...but you will never win the argument that those phrases are ok because "everyone does it".

If you read the thread title, it was about extraneous phrases. Just because they are normal or common doesnt mean they are correct.


Read the AIM, its there to help. Actually, read Don Brown's articles first. They are much easier to read and they will help you greatly.

 

[say again]

You will never improve until you recognize you have room to improve. My goal as a pilot is to continually improve. I'm not perfect, but when you dont even recognize you have a problem....you are dangerous. Keep telling yourself your nonstandard phraseology makes you a professional. The real professionals will be laughing.


The topic was not only about 4.6 or "with you". Those are minor...but you will never win the argument that those phrases are ok because "everyone does it".

If you read the thread title, it was about extraneous phrases. Just because they are normal or common doesnt mean they are correct.


Read the AIM, its there to help. Actually, read Don Brown's articles first. They are much easier to read and they will help you greatly.

hahahahahahahahahahahahahaha!!!!!! you are simply amazing. get over it already.

 

[Hollywood82]

You will never improve until you recognize you have room to improve. My goal as a pilot is to continually improve. I'm not perfect, but when you dont even recognize you have a problem....you are dangerous. Keep telling yourself your nonstandard phraseology makes you a professional. The real professionals will be laughing.


The topic was not only about 4.6 or "with you". Those are minor...but you will never win the argument that those phrases are ok because "everyone does it".

If you read the thread title, it was about extraneous phrases. Just because they are normal or common doesnt mean they are correct.


Read the AIM, its there to help. Actually, read Don Brown's articles first. They are much easier to read and they will help you greatly.

Thanks for the lecture! Get over yourself!

 

[kf4amu]

Thanks for the lecture! Get over yourself!

You're welcome. Hope it helps one day.

 

[Hollywood82]

The topic was not only about 4.6 or "with you". Those are minor...

So you decide what is considered minor? You get to pick and choose what you follow from the AIM? Wait a second, I thought you were just saying that using non standard phraseology will cause an accident? If you are so all knowing, why don’t you follow your own advice?

I can see why people shorten or substitute phrases to save time. Four point six vs four thousand six hundred is a great example. I do it too from time to time.

I see, it’s only OK if you do it.

Or blocked a controller for 10 seconds 3 times while you're howdying and withyaing and ahhhhhing him to death and he couldnt move someone out of the way and got a deal.

Sounds like you like to exaggerate a little. Drama added courtesy of kf4amu.

I bet you are one of those kneeboard wearing, tell everyone you’re a pilot, “I wish I was flying” license plate cover, can’t hand fly an ILS, hacks. But at least you’ll sound good on the radio when you go full scale, and tell ATC you’re going missed.

 

[highsky]

The AIM is not regulatory. That's why it's separated from the FARs. Do you understand the difference between the two?

I have heard these phrases from numerous air traffic controllers, flight instructors, freight pilots, 135 pax carrying pilots, 121 pilots, and yes even the feds them selves. The first time I heard altitude reported as 4.6 was from a flight instructor who majored in ATC. He now works Chicago center. AIM or not, it is the norm, so get over yourself!

Just today I decided to count how many times I’ve heard altitude assigned or read back as a decimal (4.6 for 4,600). ATC: Aspen app. and Kansas City app.; There were too many “with yous” to count. And SkyWest, Mesaba, DAL, Net Jets, and Citation Shares all used the either 124 and a quarter for freq., 5.5 and/or 5 and a half for altitude. If this is as dangerous as you say it is we should ground 90% of crews out there and retrain them along with just as many air traffic controllers.

Either over half of aviation professionals are wrong, or the AIM doesn’t reflect what is truly standard phraseology. Maybe we should look at changing the AIM to represent the true standard phraseology.

Idiot.

 

[Hollywood82]

Idiot.

Still trying to figure out how to form a whole sentence?

 

[kf4amu]

So you decide what is considered minor? You get to pick and choose what you follow from the AIM? Wait a second, I thought you were just saying that using non standard phraseology will cause an accident? If you are so all knowing, why don’t you follow your own advice?

Things that most people do on a daily basis that dont affect safety to a large degree would be considered minor. Unfortunately, you have so little experience in the communications industry that you don't even know the kinds of problems nonstandard phraseology cause, therefore to you, everything is minor.

And I DO try to follow my own advice. But I am human. The difference between you and I is I admit I'm wrong and try to get better. You justify it with a 2nd grade argument.

I bet you are one of those kneeboard wearing, tell everyone you’re a pilot, “I wish I was flying” license plate cover, can’t hand fly an ILS, hacks. But at least you’ll sound good on the radio when you go full scale, and tell ATC you’re going missed.

Good communications have nothing to do with flying ability. Nor would I be so bold or cocky to compliment my own flying skills. I'll let others do that if they wish.

Your attitude is dangerous.

 

[Hollywood82]

Unfortunately, you have so little experience in the communications industry that you don't even know the kinds of problems nonstandard phraseology cause, therefore to you, everything is minor.

Your attitude is dangerous.

Head over to the "with you" thread on the regionals board and say some of this stuff. They will eat you alive.

Since you know so much my about my experience, then you should know that I took ATC in college. All I'm saying is there's nothing wrong with saying "with you", or "4.5". I flew into TEB the other day, and ATC was using 4.5, and shortening other phrases as well. Everyone was on the same page and there was no confusion.

Definitely not as dangerous as a 300 hour pilot in a Dash, which is the biggest threat to safety at any regional. Talk to me when you get some PIC turbine time, or just some PIC time.

 

[kf4amu]

Head over to the "with you" thread on the regionals board and say some of this stuff. They will eat you alive.

Since you know so much my about my experience, then you should know that I took ATC in college. All I'm saying is there's nothing wrong with saying "with you", or "4.5". I flew into TEB the other day, and ATC was using 4.5, and shortening other phrases as well. Everyone was on the same page and there was no confusion.

Once again, your attitude of nonadherence to professional standards will one day get you in trouble.

And if you think taking ATC in college is any measure of communications experience or professionalism, you are so uneducated you dont know how much you need to learn. I also took an ATC minor and it was nothing compared to working in real world communications fields.

Head over to the "with you" thread on the regionals board and say some of this stuff. They will eat you alive.

HAHA you got some e-friends that you want to help back up your unprofessionalism?

 

[Hollywood82]

Once again, your attitude of nonadherence to professional standards will one day get you in trouble.

And if you think taking ATC in college is any measure of communications experience or professionalism, you are so uneducated you dont know how much you need to learn. I also took an ATC minor and it was nothing compared to working in real world communications fields.



HAHA you got some e-friends that you want to help back up your unprofessionalism?

I don't think you're in any position to call someone out on professionalism. After all, you are still one of the dreaded 300hr wonder kids.

Sounds like you think alot of yourself. You need to think about getting your priorities straight. I will agree with you that there are some things that don’t belong on the radio, but there are far more important things out there that make a good aviator. Standard phraseology doesn’t make or break a good aviator.

An inexperienced aviation newbie such as yourself needs to realize that you don’t have all the answers after one year in the right seat of a dash. You’re lucky you got in when the regionals were so desperate that they hired a 300hr guy such as yourself. The cocky, better than everyone else attitude that you’ve displayed in some of your previous posts would prevent you from getting a job at even the lowest regional today. People pick up on that fast. You better sweeten up, or hope you don’t get furloughed, no-one wants a little brat in their right seat.

 

[kf4amu]

I don't think you're in any position to call someone out on professionalism. After all, you are still one of the dreaded 300hr wonder kids.

No, the dreaded 300 hr wonder kids have the attitude you exhibit. The attitude that they know it all, and don't need to learn anything knew. They are always right, and the AIM is optional.

Sounds like you think alot of yourself. You need to think about getting your priorities straight. I will agree with you that there are some things that don’t belong on the radio, but there are far more important things out there that make a good aviator. Standard phraseology doesn’t make or break a good aviator.

Of course it doesnt. Flying is about flying, not talking on the radio. This thread is not about flying, its about talking on the radio. Bringing in another subject is simply dodging the topic at hand. And yes, I do think alot of myself actually. Im pretty much the coolest and best guy out there. I even wear aviators to show how cool I am. And I had a trust fund so I dont have to pay back any loans.

An inexperienced aviation newbie such as yourself needs to realize that you don’t have all the answers after one year in the right seat of a dash. You’re lucky you got in when the regionals were so desperate that they hired a 300hr guy such as yourself.

I love admitting that. I love telling people how lucky I am. They are expecting me to talk about how I deserved it and how awesome and smart I am. Instead I tell them I have a very thick skin, I ask them to tell me when I mess up, explain things to me, and don't accept anything substandard from me. Lots of captains won't chastise a new F/O because they don't want to bother with the arguments from some new jackass who thinks he knows everything. I want to learn. I freely admit I dont have all the answers when it comes to flying 121.

However, one thing that DOES have all the answers, is the AIM. You are arguing with the AIM, not me. You are arguing with standard phraseology, something the FAA insists their employees adhere to without question. You are arguing with someone who has much more experience with professional communications than you do (me). Your only argument is "Well everyone else does it! It's obviously OK!".

That doesnt work. Ever. You'd be the worst lawyer in history.

Admit you are wrong and work to fix your mistakes. No one cares when you admit a mistake that you are trying to fix. But when you justify unprofessional actions with grade school arguments like "everyone is doing it!", you lower yourself to the bar of the 300 hour know-it-all pilots.

 

[say again]

This is getting ridiculous. You speak your way and I will speak mine. If I say 4.5, so be it. The controller knows exactly what I'm saying. And yes, I am a professional and treat my career as such. End of discussion.