Extraneous useless radio phrases

[Clyde]

Do you guys think it's professional to respond to "cleared for take-off" with "cleared to go"? I don't.

I have to agree Mach80 on this one. While I understand that some of you may peg Mach80 for being too anal or uptight with regards to proper phraseology on the radio, I think he is bringing up a good topic of discussion. And I believe many of you would be doing yourselves a disservice by ignoring it.

I will bring up a good case in point as to why one should aim to practice proper phraseology and good radio technique: habits.

Another case in point is flying in the international arena. Most controllers in foreign countries don't speak conversational english. Rather, many know rudimentary english and others may only have an understanding of basic english with regards to ATC. In other words, they only know proper ATC phraseology. Anything other than that may confuse them.

"on the hold" may work for you in a Cessna 152 at the local rural airport in the middle of nowhere. If the controller in Hong Kong tells you to "Line up and wait, zero seven right", you will respond with "line and up wait, zero seven right". If you respond with "on the hold", the controller may ask for confirmation until you get it right.

On a previous post in this thread, someone brought up the words "tree" and "fife" for 3 and 5 respectively. Here is what was said:

Who keeps saying "fife" and "tree"... that's so last year!

Well, open up your J-Aid and look in the section titled "Tables And Codes". You will find a section which contains the Morse Code, Phonetic Alphabet, and numbers with HOW TO PRONOUNCE THEM.

9 = Niner. Guess what else it says?
3 is pronounced as TREE
5 is pronounced as FIFE
And even 4 is technically pronounced as FOW-er.

So much for being "so last year!".

 

[Midnight Flyer]

Well, open up your J-Aid and look in the section titled "Tables And Codes". You will find a section which contains the Morse Code, Phonetic Alphabet, and numbers with HOW TO PRONOUNCE THEM.

9 = Niner. Guess what else it says?
3 is pronounced as TREE
5 is pronounced as FIFE
And even 4 is technically pronounced as FOW-er.

So much for being "so last year!".

Here's some of my favorites I love to poke fun at:

When saying "PAPA", there's always that one guy you hear pronounce it something like "ph-paah"
(with emphases on making the "puh" very short and extending the "paah".)

Another one is "QUEBEC". I've always pronounced it "kuh-beck" but every now and then you'll hear somebody say "kay-beck".

I know the pronounciaton police will probably be quick to respond and say those silly pronunciations are indeed the correct one's to use, but right or wrong, those two pronunciations make me smile.

Like someone else mentioned, it's funny to hear pilots respond with "here we go" when given an altitude change.

I guess the only thing that actually does annoy me is when you're flying along and ATC asks somebody else on the frequency to "say speed" and the guy you're flying with thinks he's being cute and looks at you and says "SPEED".

 

[Citrus1]

From a pilots side, we usually notice when a controller has his ICAO on...fife, tree, niner etc.

I flew a flight a few years ago as TRS985 into Atlanta, TRS95 (with a thick southern accent) came on frequency and took one of our radio calls, then another. We heard what was going on.. the ZTL controller didnt. We switched frequency and checked on with no response, gave it a few seconds; then TRS95 checks on the controller hears his accent as my flight, and gives him a clearance intended for me. Squealing and stepping on everyone so I could get a word in to clarify my clearance and within 10 seconds I get an RA. I got violated, it all started with someone who couldn't speak clearly.

Although I did find out who the other pilot was and cellophane his car in the employee lot in the middle of July, so that was good.

 

[PURPLEHAZE21]

In there best Charlton Heston voice...." Ahhhhhhhhhhhh we got'em on the fish finder...."

"STFU Over" !!!!!!!!!!!

 

[bknight_c50]

While we're on the subject of radio calls that seem unnecessary, I have a couple questions for a couple airports I go into quite often, and there are some radio calls that seem specific to these airports that I don't hear everywhere else. It's not a complaint, I've just kind of always wondered why these places consistantly give me information that others don't...

The first one is at CLT. I get turned onto final for runway 36L, I check in with tower and am cleared to land. Then tower clears an outbound flight to taxi into position and hold on 36L. After the exchange with the outbound flight, the tower then makes a special radio call back to me saying that "traffic departs before your arrival..." I understand this call when I just check in, and the other plane may have gotten the "position and hold" clearance before I checked in, and maybe I didn't hear it. I also understand it if I'm checking in and the outbound plane hasn't gotten the clearance into position and hold yet, but they're going to get it as soon as tower's done talking to me...But when I've already checked in, and I just heard a plane get cleared into position and hold, I already know that they're going to depart before my arrival...They're not going to clear them into position just to make them sit there til I go around...The special call to tell me that seems a little excessive, and clogs up the radio on a busy day just to tell me something that's obvious. Like I said, I'm not complaining, just wondering why it's done this way here, and not usually anywhere else. Everywhere else it's done when I check in, if at all, and if someone's cleared into position after I've checked in, they know I heard it, and don't bother telling me.

Another question is in PHL. I'm on downwind for 27L or 26, and it's a busy day with long finals, and I get a call telling me "you're leaving class bravo airspace..." I'm still talking to the same controller, still getting vectors and traffic advisories from them, and bascally nothing's different from my standpoint...Why do they need to tell me this? It doesn't change anything for me. Maybe I need to be more vigilant for VFR aircraft, but I'm supposed to be vigilant all the time anyway.

I'm sure these calls are information that the FAA requires them to tell me, but I don't notice it as much at other airports. To me, these calls are just as useless as some of the examples from pilots mentioned earlier in the thread. Do they seem useless to you too? If not, please tell me what I should do differently when I temporarily leave class B airspace, or give me an example of when a plane might be cleared into position and hold on my runway with me on frequency that won't "depart before my arrival."

 

[regionalcap]

While we're on the subject of radio calls that seem unnecessary, I have a couple questions for a couple airports I go into quite often, and there are some radio calls that seem specific to these airports that I don't hear everywhere else. It's not a complaint, I've just kind of always wondered why these places consistantly give me information that others don't...

The first one is at CLT. I get turned onto final for runway 36L, I check in with tower and am cleared to land. Then tower clears an outbound flight to taxi into position and hold on 36L. After the exchange with the outbound flight, the tower then makes a special radio call back to me saying that "traffic departs before your arrival..." I understand this call when I just check in, and the other plane may have gotten the "position and hold" clearance before I checked in, and maybe I didn't hear it. I also understand it if I'm checking in and the outbound plane hasn't gotten the clearance into position and hold yet, but they're going to get it as soon as tower's done talking to me...But when I've already checked in, and I just heard a plane get cleared into position and hold, I already know that they're going to depart before my arrival...They're not going to clear them into position just to make them sit there til I go around...The special call to tell me that seems a little excessive, and clogs up the radio on a busy day just to tell me something that's obvious. Like I said, I'm not complaining, just wondering why it's done this way here, and not usually anywhere else. Everywhere else it's done when I check in, if at all, and if someone's cleared into position after I've checked in, they know I heard it, and don't bother telling me.

Another question is in PHL. I'm on downwind for 27L or 26, and it's a busy day with long finals, and I get a call telling me "you're leaving class bravo airspace..." I'm still talking to the same controller, still getting vectors and traffic advisories from them, and bascally nothing's different from my standpoint...Why do they need to tell me this? It doesn't change anything for me. Maybe I need to be more vigilant for VFR aircraft, but I'm supposed to be vigilant all the time anyway.

I'm sure these calls are information that the FAA requires them to tell me, but I don't notice it as much at other airports. To me, these calls are just as useless as some of the examples from pilots mentioned earlier in the thread. Do they seem useless to you too? If not, please tell me what I should do differently when I temporarily leave class B airspace, or give me an example of when a plane might be cleared into position and hold on my runway with me on frequency that won't "depart before my arrival."

I would think the Class B call would be so that you know to slow to 200 kts.

 

[bknight_c50]

I would think the Class B call would be so that you know to slow to 200 kts.

Ok, fair enough, but when we're out there that far we're still pretty high so the 200kts isn't a factor yet, and by the time we get that low, we're back in class B again, but I see your point...

 

[willNOTfly4free]

Another question is in PHL. I'm on downwind for 27L or 26, and it's a busy day with long finals, and I get a call telling me "you're leaving class bravo airspace..." I'm still talking to the same controller, still getting vectors and traffic advisories from them, and bascally nothing's different from my standpoint...Why do they need to tell me this? It doesn't change anything for me. Maybe I need to be more vigilant for VFR aircraft, but I'm supposed to be vigilant all the time anyway.

§ 91.131 Operations in Class B airspace.

(a) Operating rules. No person may operate an aircraft within a Class B airspace area except in compliance with §91.129 and the following rules:
(1) The operator must receive an ATC clearance from the ATC facility having jurisdiction for that area before operating an aircraft in that area.
(2) Unless otherwise authorized by ATC, each person operating a large turbine engine-powered airplane to or from a primary airport for which a Class B airspace area is designated must operate at or above the designated floors of the Class B airspace area while within the lateral limits of that area.

and...

3-2-3. Class B Airspace

4. Unless otherwise authorized by ATC, each person operating a large turbine engine-powered airplane to or from a primary airport shall operate at or above the designated floors while within the lateral limits of Class B airspace.

 

[CallmeJB]

Someone correct me if I'm wrong, but tower will ALWAYS tell you if someone is or will be in position. If you check in way out, and you're number 3 for landing, they'll still say "Cleared to land runway 19, traffic will hold and depart". If they don't say it, but later decide there's enough room to squeeze out a departure, they will make the extra radio call to let you know.

I've noticed the same trend in CLT; they'll never tell you about a Pos and Hold until right after they issue it. IMO, this is because the CLT controllers are overwhelmed and can't plan ahead very well.

Hope this helps, I'm sure it's not all right (but it's close).

 

[bjelder]

In fairness, ATC uses unnecessary verbiage at times too ..

My favorite is "Cleared present position ..." What other position would I be in?

I also like "Climb and maintain ". "Fly planned route" and "assume own navigation". Unless you tell me otherwise I take these as a given.

Eh...for what its worth, heres my take on it. Of course its in the 'precious book' but I think there's some practicality behind it.

As for "cleared present position direct ABC", I think the reason they may do this is because sometimes they may say "Upon reaching XXXXX (intersection) cleared direct ABC". My guess is that they say cleared present position is so the pilot understands they can start the turn immediately, and do not have to wait to reach any certain waypoint.

As for climb and maintain, my best guess is to avoid confusing "climb 6000" for "cruise 6000". When they say climb and maintain, it completely shatters any possibility of confusing 'climb' for 'cruise'.

"resume own navigation"... as for that one, in my personal experience (which is limited but I'll give it a shot). Usually they only tell you this after they've given you something funky, like a vector for traffic or a shortcut on your route. Resume own nav says that you should not expect any further vectors or non-planned assignments.

Again, just my 2 cents

 

[BrownStreak]

I always wondered why anyone would ask for a windcheck unless the winds are pushing the limits of the airplane. I am not sure why pilots say "we have him on TCAS". Unless you have the traffic visually, ATC does not care if you have him on TCAS.

Wind check = a pilot who is behind the aircraft. Look out the window! Which way are you crabbed? Oh, to the right? Well that the direction the crosswind is coming from, dumb@ss!!!! sheesh.
(of course sometimes you have to ask if they are landing you in a tailwind that exceeds your component but come on, how often is that why?)

 

[ATCT]

Wind check = a pilot landing you in a tailwind that exceeds your component but come on, how often is that why?)

I guess you dont fly to Houston alot :laugh:

ATCT

 

[bigheadtodd]

Above FL180? No visual separation allowed up there.

Are you kidding? Seriously! Are you kidding?

 

[Booker]

Are you kidding? Seriously! Are you kidding?

Well, I'm no controller, but 7110.65 states the following:

7−1−1. CLASS A AIRSPACE RESTRICTIONS
Do not apply visual separation or issue VFR or
“VFR-on-top” clearances in Class A airspace.

What am I missing?

Thanks

 

[Mach 80]

>>>>Wind check = a pilot landing you in a tailwind that exceeds your component but come on, how often is that why?<<<

Unless it's a direct tailwind, which is seldom, who can compute the tailwind triginomitry in their head while flying on short final.

Unless there is a big storm nearby, "wind check" is indeed a waste of time. I think it's just a bad habit some guys have. Drives me crazy when the ATIS is reporting a 6kt wind and some guy wants a "wind check".

Another bad habit is the guy who always asks if they are cleared to land on short final after having been cleared a few minutes ago. All they are doing when they do that is startle the controllers -- the controller knows he cleared him to land earlier and this now stressfully causes him to look out and see if someone is crossing the runway or on it. It makes the controller think he might have screwed something up.

 

[runwayjockey]

>>>>Wind check = a pilot landing you in a tailwind that exceeds your component but come on, how often is that why?<<<



Another bad habit is the guy who always asks if they are cleared to land on short final after having been cleared a few minutes ago. All they are doing when they do that is startle the controllers -- the controller knows he cleared him to land earlier and this now stressfully causes him to look out and see if someone is crossing the runway or on it. It makes the controller think he might have screwed something up.

22000 Fricking hours and you never ever had to ask for confirmation on a landing clearance? Give me a F%$#ing break! If my FO has doubt and I have doubt we are asking and I don't give a hoot if it makes your Pssy hurt!

 

[Mach 80]

Re-read my post. I said ALWAYS asks. I know on occasion someone might forget and I certainly have. I was talking about guys who just about always ask about landing clearance after having received it a few minutes previously. I had an F/O who was in this bad habit and I finally had to tell him to knock it off and to pay attention when he got it the first time.

 

[414Flyer]

I make no apologies for verifying landing clearance on short final. Sometimes I forget, sometimes even the controllers forget to issue it too.

I would rather spend a few seconds on that, than face accidentally landing without clearance. I once saw a Aloha 737 land without a clearnace once, luckily for them, the Tower did not want to make an issue of it. Sometimes its just easy to get preoccupied and forget

 

[mtsupilot376]

Ha i hear ya there. Who the eff cares what you say on the freq. Were all doing our jobs, makin the best of it. I might just wake up early tomorrow and watch "The View" and hear a bunch of Bit_ches complain about everything going wrong with their lifes, and I will think about all the people here on FI Bit_Ch'n about a topics like this. I enjoy hearing the "nice personable conversations" when im stuck on a 5 day trip to BFE Kansas. It gives me something to look foward to for my trip home. JUST MY 2 CENTS

You watch The View?

 

[Mach 80]

>>>> I make no apologies for verifying landing clearance on short final. <<<<

Again, re-read my post. I said guys who ALWAYS ask. Certainly if you can't recall - ask. I was referring to pilots who have made it a habit to always ask on every approach to landing. I have flown with a few of them and it was ridiculous.

Heard this yesterday:

ATC: " 'Airline xyz', descend and maintain FL 240".

Airline xyz: "Descend to FL 230.....WE'LL DO IT".