ExpressJet to fly for....American

[Truckdriver]

So, this is different than the "whores" who were BIDDING on the CAL flying?

I hear all sorts of justifications out there from the expressjet guys now and heard plenty of threats to all of us who were trying to get your flying.

because we all know it was "us" pilots lobbying CAL for it.

It's a little different because AMR has not told Eagle that XJT will take 69 of THEIR airplanes and put XJT pilots in them to do flying Eagle is currently doing. IF XJT flies for AMR, it will be flying that is not currently done by Eagle. Places like DFW-BOI that AMR was not able to do because they couldn't fill up a 700 will possibly be done by XJT in an XR because they might fill it up. Eagle cannot do that route in anthing but a 700 because their ERJ's don't have the range.

 

[Jetlink]

well, if AMR is willing to spend MORE money on a regional contract because of better service then TSA is screwed!!! (just kidding, I'm sure we are top notch)

Well, sometimes that old saying "you get what you pay for" actually does mean something. No one knows what AMR is going to pay for the XJT contract. Like I said before, when you have lower operating costs in all other aspects of your business, you can pay your people more. Kind of the Southwest philosophy...highest paid 737 pilots in the country, yet some of the lowest paid employees in all other aspects...is that the pilots fault?

We, unlike CHQ or Mesa, have hard numbers that cannot be fudged to "get" a contract in false light. ACARS, dispatch reliability numbers, on-time performance (although this has to do with CAL operations folks....we have numbers for both our run outstations and CAL run hub/outstations), extensive network of maintenance locations, unsurpassed in any other regional carrier, and over 1100 mechanics that keep our 99._ something dispatch reliability a reality, and something we can negotiate with.

Canceling flights costs money, we just avoid it at all costs. I haven't flown an airplane with an open MEL in over two months. There is a reason for this. I did have an airplane several weeks ago that was not going to be able to get fixed right then...what happened? We had an aircraft swap. They brought us another airplane that was available. Most regional carriers do not have the luxury of this aircraft availability...most any other would have just cancelled the flight. We went out 1 hour late, but we went out.

Lets say that was a CHQ flight operating for CAL. I highly doubt they would have had the resources to swap the aircraft, particularly if they are operating only a small number of aircraft for CAL in the first place.

 

[EMBPILOT1]

IF and only If this is true, then yes, COEX is no different than CHQ and TSA and Regions Air or whoever they are. None of the companies above took any flying away from Eagle, yet all of the above were treated as if they had sold their souls to the devil himself. You guys can try and justify this all you want, but you will be taking away upgrades and routes that I am certain Eagle guys think is "theirs".


What comes around go's around right? If this goes through, get ready for some slammin. I think I will go get a beer for this.

 

[dickburns]

Everyone on here needs to grow some and get a job flying freight. It will make you a better pilot.

 

[paid4training]

IF and only If this is true, then yes, COEX is no different than CHQ and TSA and Regions Air or whoever they are. None of the companies above took any flying away from Eagle, yet all of the above were treated as if they had sold their souls to the devil himself. You guys can try and justify this all you want, but you will be taking away upgrades and routes that I am certain Eagle guys think is "theirs".


What comes around go's around right? If this goes through, get ready for some slammin. I think I will go get a beer for this.

[URL="http://images.google.com/images?q=tbn:h7IGB_CSGuBoxM:www.amgmedia.com/freephotos/beer-glass.jpg"]http://images.google.com/images?q=tbn:h7IGB_CSGuBoxM:www.amgmedia.com/freephotos/beer-glass.jpg[/URL]


Here the first on is one me....:beer:

 

[Jetlink]

IF and only If this is true, then yes, COEX is no different than CHQ and TSA and Regions Air or whoever they are. None of the companies above took any flying away from Eagle, yet all of the above were treated as if they had sold their souls to the devil himself. You guys can try and justify this all you want, but you will be taking away upgrades and routes that I am certain Eagle guys think is "theirs".


What comes around go's around right? If this goes through, get ready for some slammin. I think I will go get a beer for this.

Upgrade times?? At Eagle?? LOLOLOLOLOL....ohhhh, yeah...thats a good one.

Maybe its that flow-back provision they have there at Eagle.....hmm....because their flow-through provision SUCKED big time.

Why didn't AMR buy XR's so they could actually fly the routes they want flown? They still could if they wanted too.

It is easy to slam those who's company "takes" flying when that pilot group isn't paid the highest. Its not so easy to do when a company who's pilot group does have the industry leading contract is awarded the flying.

Hey, I was kept out of "upgrading" for 3 years because we had a little thing called a flow-back provision that let CAL pilots flow on back down should there be a furlough, and there was. I wasn't happy about it, but its hard to argue with a deal that is contractual, I knew it existed when I got hired, and lived with it.

CAL flowed roughly 450 back to Express, maybe more I can't recall off-hand, but CAL has "flowed-through" nearly 1800 pilots from Express to CAL. I'd say that was a pretty good deal, at least for the 1800 or so and now those behind them all who "moved up" the ladder.

I will always believe that a strong small jet provider who has a close relationship to one "mothership" is certainly more beneficial to all rather than a piece-mealed system of redundant providers, but who am I but a lowly pilot

XJT is not taking away "routes and upgrades" that Eagle believes should have been theirs. Eagle voted their contract in. They have to live with it's realities. If you were hired at Eagle in the last 10 years and you didn't expect 12 years in as an FO, then please tell me how you passed the drug test because the main reason I never applied to Eagle, although they had the best base structure, is because even I knew and had heard from those there, that it certainly was not "the place to be."

 

[beechcowboy]

This whole thread is gay. As long as we, as pilots, don't accept less to gain more, then we have done our civic duty as far as I am concerned. Bottom line, its a dirty azz business, and nobody wins. If we go in and say we will work for less to do Eagle's current routes, then that would be a bit underhanded, in my opinion that is.

 

[beechcowboy]

Oh yeah, and guys, I think we should stop bragging about having an industry leading contract... that could all crumble at any given moment. Just be happy that we have what we have, and be humble. In other words, take the high road.

 

[gkrangers]

Oh yeah, and guys, I think we should stop bragging about having an industry leading contract... that could all crumble at any given moment. Just be happy that we have what we have, and be humble. In other words, take the high road.

It'll crumble if you let it.

 

[Elusive Napkin]

CHQ's bid for the Continental flying was more expensive than TSA's bid, yet look who got that contract.

I would really be interested to know how you came into contact with that information, considering all the bids were confidential. DO tell.......

 

[USMCAirWinger]

XJT is not taking away "routes and upgrades" that Eagle believes should have been theirs. Eagle voted their contract in. They have to live with it's realities. If you were hired at Eagle in the last 10 years and you didn't expect 12 years in as an FO, then please tell me how you passed the drug test because the main reason I never applied to Eagle, although they had the best base structure, is because even I knew and had heard from those there, that it certainly was not "the place to be."

Dude, you have no idea as to what you are talking about.

What about the contract? have you read it?

Upgrades...the guys from 98 upgraded with 11/2 to 2 years.

The magic 16 year contract was put in place to consolidate all the "Eagles" into one in order to stop whipsawing. The connection flying was a result of the TWA buyout.

Weren't you clowns crying about how CAL gave the flying to CHitako or Mesa, but now your happy about taking flying away from Eagle. Sounds pretty hypocritical to me.

 

[The Drizzle]

Sounds pretty hypocritical to me.

he doesn't get it yet. remeber, being competetive for contracts is new to them. welcome to the real regional world, xjet'ers. hope you keep as successful as you were with one paint scheme on the tails.

 

[Elusive Napkin]

Can we all step back and remember that this is a HUGE RUMOR!!!!! I mean aren't we also supposed to fly for SWA to Mexico, Restart Braniff, fly point-to-point from MCI, SAN,TUS, SAN, and fly charter operations?? Oh yeah and we are just going to park the jets to piss off CAL, while leasing a few to Aviacsa. Geez.... lets not go crazy here making fiction into fact. I for one hope that Eagle gets ANY new flying, old flying, whatever that AMR decides to pursue.

My only wish is that we find some way to use these planes in such a way that everyone gets to keep their job as long as they want. In addition, I really hope we don't step on any toes while doing it. I know we would be pissed if CAL awarded routes that hadn't ever been flown to CHQ, TSA, Mesa, QXE, whoever.. assuming we were capable of flying. Peace and harmony to all RJ pilots in this GREAT industry!!! And the prop guys too if the gods have time....

 

[paid4training]

Why can't we just get along!!!!:beer:

 

[Jetlink]

Dude, you have no idea as to what you are talking about.

What about the contract? have you read it?

Upgrades...the guys from 98 upgraded with 11/2 to 2 years.

The magic 16 year contract was put in place to consolidate all the "Eagles" into one in order to stop whipsawing. The connection flying was a result of the TWA buyout.

Weren't you clowns crying about how CAL gave the flying to CHitako or Mesa, but now your happy about taking flying away from Eagle. Sounds pretty hypocritical to me.

Yes I know why you guys signed a 16 year contract. To stop the Crandall back and forth with the 5 carriers. You still signed it.

No one is happy about the splitting of the flying. I fly for an airline that Continental created, built, and has used very effectively to remain at the top of the major carriers today. I would rather (much rather) remain the status quo, operate exclusively for CAL, and not have one of those damn blue chickens on my tail eventually...believe you me. I think Eagle should do all of AA's flying, everywhere. I think Comair should have done all of Delta's flying, everywhere. I think ACA should have done all of UA's flying, everywhere...etc.

The point in all of this back and forth...is that you do not have to be the lowest PAID to have the BEST bid (like all of the "other" regional CEO's tend to want you to believe - DCI, Republic, Mesa, Skywest, etc)....I didn't say most inexpensive (because I have no idea what the bids are/were). I am assuming here that AA has a need for, and we have the very marketable 145xr, which no one else operates. Had CHQ had XRs, they might very well have won the flying, if it comes to fruition.

I have no idea what your statement of "the guys from 98 upgraded with 11/2 to 2 years" means.

Our "crying" because of the CHQ bid was about how a lower paid, therefore easily lower bid carrier has won flying that was being flown by a higher paid, better contracted pilot group. It would have been extremely difficult for us to "cry" had a higher paid....ummm, errrr, well if there was a higher paid pilot group taken it...then it would have been hard to biittch.

I honestly think this whole outsourced carrier bidding crap just has to be the worst thing that has ever occured. Main line pilots are to blame for that in all reality due to someones belief that small jets just weren't worth maintaing control over its seniority list.

 

[Jetlink]

Can we all step back and remember that this is a HUGE RUMOR!!!!! I mean aren't we also supposed to fly for SWA to Mexico, Restart Braniff, fly point-to-point from MCI, SAN,TUS, SAN, and fly charter operations?? Oh yeah and we are just going to park the jets to piss off CAL, while leasing a few to Aviacsa. Geez.... lets not go crazy here making fiction into fact. I for one hope that Eagle gets ANY new flying, old flying, whatever that AMR decides to pursue.

My only wish is that we find some way to use these planes in such a way that everyone gets to keep their job as long as they want. In addition, I really hope we don't step on any toes while doing it. I know we would be pissed if CAL awarded routes that hadn't ever been flown to CHQ, TSA, Mesa, QXE, whoever.. assuming we were capable of flying. Peace and harmony to all RJ pilots in this GREAT industry!!! And the prop guys too if the gods have time....

Yes...but this is just too much fun

 

[temcgrew]

Peace and harmony to all RJ pilots in this GREAT industry!!! And the prop guys too if the gods have time....

I second that!!

 

[Elusive Napkin]

Yes I know why you guys signed a 16 year contract. To stop the Crandall back and forth with the 5 carriers. You still signed it.

No one is happy about the splitting of the flying. I fly for an airline that Continental created, built, and has used very effectively to remain at the top of the major carriers today. I would rather (much rather) remain the status quo, operate exclusively for CAL, and not have one of those dang blue chickens on my tail eventually...believe you me. I think Eagle should do all of AA's flying, everywhere. I think Comair should have done all of Delta's flying, everywhere. I think ACA should have done all of UA's flying, everywhere...etc.

The point in all of this back and forth...is that you do not have to be the lowest PAID to have the BEST bid (like all of the "other" regional CEO's tend to want you to believe - DCI, Republic, Mesa, Skywest, etc)....I didn't say most inexpensive (because I have no idea what the bids are/were). I am assuming here that AA has a need for, and we have the very marketable 145xr, which no one else operates. Had CHQ had XRs, they might very well have won the flying, if it comes to fruition.

I have no idea what your statement of "the guys from 98 upgraded with 11/2 to 2 years" means.

Our "crying" because of the CHQ bid was about how a lower paid, therefore easily lower bid carrier has won flying that was being flown by a higher paid, better contracted pilot group. It would have been extremely difficult for us to "cry" had a higher paid....ummm, errrr, well if there was a higher paid pilot group taken it...then it would have been hard to biittch.

I honestly think this whole outsourced carrier bidding crap just has to be the worst thing that has ever occured. Main line pilots are to blame for that in all reality due to someones belief that small jets just weren't worth maintaing control over its seniority list.

Dude, seriously lay off the we're the best crap... I mean I love working at XJT as much as the next guy. Yay US!! GO REAM!!!!, etc, etc, etc. However, it wasn't but a few months ago that CMR was the top dog. Observe present day facts.... Catch my drift?? You're a little too cocky.

 

[temcgrew]

The point in all of this back and forth...is that you do not have to be the lowest PAID to have the BEST bid

Our "crying" because of the CHQ bid was about how a lower paid, therefore easily lower bid carrier has won flying that was being flown by a higher paid, better contracted pilot group.

Was that all in one breath?

 

[Elusive Napkin]

Yes...but this is just too much fun

Yeah it is... :beer:



So, you hear about that Bangladesh base?? Shorts-360 Flight Engineer should go junior.

 

[Jetlink]

Yeah it is... :beer:



So, you hear about that Bangladesh base?? Shorts-360 Flight Engineer should go junior.

Dude, we are so first in Iraq its not even funny. CHQ can't get the insurance so I hear. Mesa is all tapped out. That XR should have no trouble eluding those shoulder fired missles.. very little heat signature..I think we will be even HIGHER paid on that bid!

:nuts:

Did I mention that we are the best? The BEST! I love coming to these boards and people taking it SO seriously. Oh, we're the highest paid too.

If thats not cocky enough for you......

 

[USMCAirWinger]

I have no idea what your statement of "the guys from 98 upgraded with 11/2 to 2 years" means.

This is in reference to the statement regarding the "12 years upgrade for the last 10 years".

Our "crying" because of the CHQ bid was about how a lower paid, therefore easily lower bid carrier has won flying that was being flown by a higher paid, better contracted pilot group. It would have been extremely difficult for us to "cry" had a higher paid....ummm, errrr, well if there was a higher paid pilot group taken it...then it would have been hard to biittch.

Don't tell me that BS about you being ok if it had been a higher paid carrier. Yeah right!

The fact is, you guys losing the flying is a legit thing. It sucks, I know, but i don't think Continental is doing anything illegal. Now, if AMR did that to Eagle they would be violating a contract.

 

[Elusive Napkin]

I'll drink to that bud!! I only wish Sadaam were still there. I would find a good spot for the blue juice! Screw it, we ARE the best.... hehehehe

 

[USMCAirWinger]

Did I mention that we are the best? The BEST! I love coming to these boards and people taking it SO seriously. Oh, we're the highest paid too.

If thats not cocky enough for you......

What kind of koolaid are you drinking? By the way I have two good friends at Express Jet and they do not resemble you in any way.

You're such a fag.

 

[hbrow15]

Oh yeah, and guys, I think we should stop bragging about having an industry leading contract... that could all crumble at any given moment. Just be happy that we have what we have, and be humble. In other words, take the high road.

I'm glad someone else said it, this is why I cautined our guys about dogging the CHQ guy's, because if we were successful in placeing the airplanes we would be in the same boat. We as pilot's didn't bid on flying but in our fellow pilot's eye's we are no different than CHQ right now and we can contract this or that, or it's new flying whatever, when you go into what is percieved to be someone else's backyard you will be considered stealing no matter how untrue it maybe, so if this turns out to be true then we should be ready to take some of what our guy's dished our to CHQ, because Eagle guy's will be pissed and will not want to hear any of our reasons why this is not the same as everyone else. How many times is any rumor on here ever turn out to be true? nothing I can think of since the Skywest buying ASA rumor. First ASA was going to get CAL flying, then it was TSA, then someone was buying up a bunch of ERJ sim time because they were getting CAL flying. The SEC might want to talk to whoever gave up this info before an offical announcement, not very smart if you want to avoid being the next Martha Stewart. No disrespect intended, but I'll wait till Jim Ream say's it before I start making plans to upgrade. Again no disrepect intended to my fellow XJTers but guy's let's dial it down a little and let it play out.

 

[Jetlink]

The fact is, you guys losing the flying is a legit thing. It sucks, I know, but i don't think Continental is doing anything illegal. Now, if AMR did that to Eagle they would be violating a contract.

I'm sorry, was I alluding to an illegal activity? No one stated that its not a "legit thing." Its just a "sucky thing."

How in the world would AMR "doing that to Eagle" violate a contract? No one is stating that AMR is doing anything to Eagle. The routes, if they come, are new, due to new equipment.

I never said that I, or anyone else would be "OK" with a higher paid pilot group "taking" our flying. I just said it would be "HARD TO BIITCH ABOUT IT." Come on Marine, keep up with the conversation.

 

[On Your Six]

I wonder what Flight Options and other part-135 Legacy operators (ie Swift Aviation) think about this potential development? Would Coex use its 145s or its 135s for the charter operation?

Certainly would add some route variety for the Coex pilots who get to do the flying... Get ready to shoot approaches at Aspen...

 

[Jetlink]

What kind of koolaid are you drinking? By the way I have two good friends at Express Jet and they do not resemble you in any way.

You're such a fag.

Well I would rather be a fag than a complete and total DUMBASSSSSS.

 

[arthompson]

Why would ACA have to do all of UA's flying? They weren't UAX till the 90's, *AFTER* Air Wisconsin had been bought by United

 

[USMCAirWinger]

I rather be a fag

I won't argue with that.