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Expressjet growing?

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Line bidding BITES! That said, ExpressJets swapping rules, etc are better than what ASA has. Pref Bidding buries line bidding as a pairing delivery method. That said, the only way to have so much open time left over is to have less guys receiving hard lines (i.e more guys on reserve) That would be a hard sell over on the ASA side.
 
79%N1 said:
Line bidding BITES! That said, ExpressJets swapping rules, etc are better than what ASA has. Pref Bidding buries line bidding as a pairing delivery method. That said, the only way to have so much open time left over is to have less guys receiving hard lines (i.e more guys on reserve) That would be a hard sell over on the ASA side.
Click to expand...

You guys really need to be educated on our line bidding and work rules! Too bad your MEC isn't open minded to even learn about our system (like ours is doing), much less educating you guys. Who is being u reasonable?
 
Let me help you out here to better state what you meant to say;

79%N1 said:
The way ASA had line bidding, all I can say is Line bidding BITES! However, since I've NEVER used the XJT line bid work rule system, my arguments and opinions of the XJT way are based solely on ignorance and not educating myself. That said, ExpressJets swapping rules, etc are better than what ASA has. Pref Bidding buries line bidding as a pairing delivery method. That said, the only way to have so much open time left over is to have less guys receiving hard lines (i.e more guys on reserve) That would be a hard sell over on the ASA side. However, since the XJT pairing generator created way more efficient pairings than we've seen as of yet, ASA reserve numbers went up. So basically, BOTH systems can create more pilots on reserve. SO it really doesn't matter
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There, fixed it for ya'
 
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No...but thanks. I stand by my original statement. Line bidding bites. Who wants to sit and look through hundreds on lines, scanning every pairing, etc. I like the way PBS works and the flexibility of it. But thanks for the edit.
 
Baronman said:
Pref bidding could be the greatest thing...XJTers resist change...period. Every change is perceived as worse.
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I only resist change if the change is worse than what I have now. Pref biding is worse than what I have now, so yeah, I'm going to resist.
 
Is it true that with the ExpressJet line bidding, only 50% of the pilots are awarded actual lines, then another 20% get relief lines and the rest are on reserve?
 
79%N1 said:
No...but thanks. I stand by my original statement. Line bidding bites. Who wants to sit and look through hundreds on lines, scanning every pairing, etc. I like the way PBS works and the flexibility of it. But thanks for the edit.
Click to expand...

Hardly anyone scans through the lines, there's an automatic line ordering tool that selects the lines according to your preferences. I haven't bid in years, I just let "Ad-opt" do the work. Sometimes I check the results to see if it's really giving me what I want.

That said, since XJT MEC is open to look at other options, they've being looking at different PBS systems. I understand that the PBS system they liked the most is NOT the ASA system which I understand is crap. XJT is going to introduce that PBS system (not ASA's one) on a TRIAL basis for reserve/relief line bidding soon.
 
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BOX OFFICE said:
Is it true that with the ExpressJet line bidding, only 50% of the pilots are awarded actual lines, then another 20% get relief lines and the rest are on reserve?
Click to expand...

It's 70-75% with hard lines, 15% with relief lines (which are also hard lines that you can trip-trade but they're not awarded until the third week of the month prior as opposed to the end of the first week which is typical for hard lines).

Historically only 10% hold reserve but the company is trying to increase that to 20% with all the hiring etc.
 
hey let's adapt the best of each! I'm open to ExJet's if it's an improvement over PBS, but I do like PBS over the old line bidding crap at ASA, and i'm not one of the 1700 that 777 writes about, clueless that he/she is fo sure :rolleyes:
 
princeton said:
Hardly anyone scans through the lines, there's an automatic line ordering tool that selects the lines according to your preferences. I haven't bid in years, I just let "Ad-opt" do the work. Sometimes I check the results to see if it's really giving me what I want.

That said, since XJT MEC is open to look at other options, they've being looking at different PBS systems. I understand that the PBS system they liked the most is NOT the ASA system which I understand is crap. XJT is going to introduce that PBS system (not ASA's one) on a TRIAL basis for reserve/relief line bidding soon.
Click to expand...

Actually the ASA system is probably the best. DAL, swa and others have been looking at it. But it still doesn't match up to Expressjet's line bidding.
 
79%N1 said:
No...but thanks. I stand by my original statement. Line bidding bites. Who wants to sit and look through hundreds on lines, scanning every pairing, etc. I like the way PBS works and the flexibility of it. But thanks for the edit.
Click to expand...

ALL PBS systems bite. By the way, we have a pairing sorter if you don't want to look through 300 lines.

Baronman said:
Pref bidding could be the greatest thing...XJTers resist change...period. Every change is perceived as worse.
Click to expand...

It's the XJT MEC who is researching PBS and actually planning on using as a test. The other MEC won't take their fingers out of their ears.
 
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Nevets said:
It's the XJT MEC who is researching PBS and actually planning on using as a test. The other MEC won't take their fingers out of their ears.
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The ASA MEC is tasked with representing the ASA pilots PERIOD! The XJT MEC is tasked with representing you. The vast majority of ASA pilots prefer PBS, so our MEC should ignore you and your MEC. We can stay separate for all I and others care. You keep your beloved system and we will keep ours. Everyone is happy that way....
 
Nevets said:
You guys really need to be educated on our line bidding and work rules! Too bad your MEC isn't open minded to even learn about our system (like ours is doing), much less educating you guys. Who is being u reasonable?
Click to expand...

Bah hahahahahah!
 
JoeMerchant said:
The ASA MEC is tasked with representing the ASA pilots PERIOD! The XJT MEC is tasked with representing you. The vast majority of ASA pilots prefer PBS, so our MEC should ignore you and your MEC. We can stay separate for all I and others care. You keep your beloved system and we will keep ours. Everyone is happy that way....
Click to expand...

My point being that you are not being represented well when you dont have all the information available to you. But I guess ignorance is bliss. I would rather stay separate anyways.
 
Nevets said:
My point being that you are not being represented well when you dont have all the information available to you. But I guess ignorance is bliss. I would rather stay separate anyways.
Click to expand...

We have operated under both line bidding and PBS....You have only operated under line bidding. I would say that we have a better perspective than you do.

Many of us have educated ourselves about your system. Your system is only better than our old line bidding system because of the ILIW and SLIW. That implies that you have to IMPROVE your line....Many of us would prefer to have what we want to start with and not have to "improve" it.....You want the company to build the lines. I and many here want the pilots to build the lines...

We agree that staying separate is better....Let's just keep it separate...
 
JoeMerchant said:
We have operated under both line bidding and PBS....You have only operated under line bidding. I would say that we have a better perspective than you do.

Many of us have educated ourselves about your system. Your system is only better than our old line bidding system because of the ILIW and SLIW. That implies that you have to IMPROVE your line....Many of us would prefer to have what we want to start with and not have to "improve" it.....You want the company to build the lines. I and many here want the pilots to build the lines...

We agree that staying separate is better....Let's just keep it separate...
Click to expand...

I agree with you that I'd rather bid for pairings rather than pre-built lines.

I disagree with you that staying separate is better. ExpressJet (for some reason) has been hiring and upgrading like mad; ASA is talking about furloughing and downgrading. How are we better off separate again?
 
sweptback said:
I agree with you that I'd rather bid for pairings rather than pre-built lines.

I disagree with you that staying separate is better. ExpressJet (for some reason) has been hiring and upgrading like mad; ASA is talking about furloughing and downgrading. How are we better off separate again?
Click to expand...

We are better off separate because the XJT folks outnumber us and they don't want PBS. The only way to keep PBS is to stay separate, unless they "get religion" on the issue...If they decide to embrace PBS, then I agree that we are better off as one...As it stands now, we need to stay separate...
 
JoeMerchant said:
We have operated under both line bidding and PBS....You have only operated under line bidding. I would say that we have a better perspective than you do.

Many of us have educated ourselves about your system. Your system is only better than our old line bidding system because of the ILIW and SLIW. That implies that you have to IMPROVE your line....Many of us would prefer to have what we want to start with and not have to "improve" it.....You want the company to build the lines. I and many here want the pilots to build the lines...

We agree that staying separate is better....Let's just keep it separate...
Click to expand...

I know you know it's not that simple. Your PBS is not the end all be all of PBS systems. How do I know? Because our MEC has actually done research and started educating our pilots. Has your MEC done that with line bidding systems, our line bidding systems, other PBS systems?

As for our work rules, the senior people get what they want and don't need to do anything to their schedules. Everyone else that got stuck with one or more trips they don't want, or got stuck working a day they don't want, or got stuck with four day trips instead of two day trips, or got stuck only having 13 days off instead of more, or got stuck with a reduced rest overnight, or got stuck with a trip with 5 legs on day four, or got stuck with an uncommutable trip, etc etc etc, at least has a chance to change that during the ILIW and then again during the SLIW. So both systems are the same in that the senior people get what they want.

JoeMerchant said:
We are better off separate because the XJT folks outnumber us and they don't want PBS. The only way to keep PBS is to stay separate, unless they "get religion" on the issue...If they decide to embrace PBS, then I agree that we are better off as one...As it stands now, we need to stay separate...
Click to expand...

We don't have to get religion. I believe that PBS is on our future. Just not your PBS and work rules. The plan is already in motion to maneuver around the intransigent MEC.

And if the plan doesnt work, I'm positive that we would absolutely br ok with staying separate until the whole ship sinks.
 
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Nevets said:
I know you know it's not that simple. Your PBS is not the end all be all of PBS systems. How do I know? Because our MEC has actually done research and started educating our pilots. Has your MEC done that with line bidding systems, our line bidding systems, other PBS systems?

As for our work rules, the senior people get what they want and don't need to do anything to their schedules. Everyone else that got stuck with one or more trips they don't want, or got stuck working a day they don't want, or got stuck with four day trips instead of two day trips, or got stuck only having 13 days off instead of more, or got stuck with a reduced rest overnight, or got stuck with a trip with 5 legs on day four, or got stuck with an uncommutable trip, etc etc etc, at least has a chance to change that during the ILIW and then again during the SLIW. So both systems are the same in that the senior people get what they want.



We don't have to get religion. I believe that PBS is on our future. Just not your PBS and work rules. The plan is already in motion to maneuver around the intransigent MEC.

And if the plan doesnt work, I'm positive that we would absolutely br ok with staying separate until the whole ship sinks.
Click to expand...

Our PBS system is the best in the industry, Legacies included. Now our work rules and benefits need some work. We aim to come up to XJT's level on that at the very least. (4hr RR, 401k, etc)
 
777forever said:
Our PBS system is the best in the industry, Legacies included. Now our work rules and benefits need some work. We aim to come up to XJT's level on that at the very least. (4hr RR, 401k, etc)
Click to expand...

All I know is that our PBS committee has looked at your PBS and all others used. They say your PBS with your work rules or our work rules is not good for our pilots or company. They found one that is better than yours and will implement their plan on the ERJ side that your MEC rejected for the joint contract. I've gotten to play with a generic version of this PBS (none of our work rules) and its very slick.

Our side is open minded, educated on the subject, and being proactive. The other side, not so much.
 

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