Expressjet growing?

[Freebrd]

PBS works for me.

works for me too but I want to see what ExJet has or can get , might be better, might not, but let's be open to it

 

[JettBoii]

Sho nuff bruce leroy

 

[McNugent]

You guys sound like a bunch of 3rd graders. My system is better than your system... blah blah blah. I'm embarrassed to be associated with either side of this BS sometimes. Hopefully most of the pilots on both sides of the fence don't share the same sentiments as some of you blowhards on here (JoeMerchant and Nevets)

 

[777forever]

now how do YOU know that 777? or are you just repeating what you read on here? get the binders off geez

ALPA has stated this several times moron

 

[TDK90]

Is it true that the XJT MEC signed an agreement not to seek one list for all 3 airlines in Inc. during the purchase process?

 

[Freebrd]

ALPA has stated this several times moron

now who is the moron, anyone who believes everything they hear from ALPA (especially ASA ALPA!), and BELIEVES it, is lacking in knowledge and/or common sense of how this whole airline deal works, moron!

 

[cbrown1]

Is it true that the XJT MEC signed an agreement not to seek one list for all 3 airlines in Inc. during the purchase process?

Yes, I believe Atkin wanted that before the deal would be final.

 

[JoeMerchant]

Yes, I believe Atkin wanted that before the deal would be final.

Which begs the question "Why?"...If the XJT group is so mucher tougher and smarter than the ASA group, and if their company was so viable on their own, then why did they give in to Jerry's demand?....Enquiring minds want to know...

 

[JoeMerchant]

I know you know it's not that simple. Your PBS is not the end all be all of PBS systems. How do I know? Because our MEC has actually done research and started educating our pilots.

Name the better PBS systems that airlines are currently using. I know ours is better than Skywest, CAL, and DAL.

Has your MEC done that with line bidding systems, our line bidding systems, other PBS systems?

Yes they have.

As for our work rules, the senior people get what they want and don't need to do anything to their schedules. Everyone else that got stuck with one or more trips they don't want, or got stuck working a day they don't want, or got stuck with four day trips instead of two day trips, or got stuck only having 13 days off instead of more, or got stuck with a reduced rest overnight, or got stuck with a trip with 5 legs on day four, or got stuck with an uncommutable trip, etc etc etc, at least has a chance to change that during the ILIW and then again during the SLIW. So both systems are the same in that the senior people get what they want.

The senior people can't get exactly what they want the first round at XJT, because they are bidding on schedules that the company built. I build my own schedule and put individual trips on the days I choose. Trust me when I say the senior folks can do much better with our PBS.

We don't have to get religion. I believe that PBS is on our future. Just not your PBS and work rules. The plan is already in motion to maneuver around the intransigent MEC.

Good luck with that. The negotiating environment is getting worse every day. Eagle is in BK and will be taking concessions. Pinnacle is right behind Eagle at the steps of the BK courthouse steps. I suspect CHQ/Republic/Shuttle isn't far behind. With the demands your MEC is after, this will drag out for years....fine by me....

And if the plan doesnt work, I'm positive that we would absolutely br ok with staying separate until the whole ship sinks.

Why would it sink?

 

[wms]

Is it true that the XJT MEC signed an agreement not to seek one list for all 3 airlines in Inc. during the purchase process?

Only until the jcba is signed.

 

[JoeMerchant]

Only until the jcba is signed.

That's ASA and XJT. The XJT contract required all 3 pilot groups to combine, but they gave that up when Jerry threatened to pull the deal.

 

[Nevets]

Which begs the question "Why?"...If the XJT group is so mucher tougher and smarter than the ASA group, and if their company was so viable on their own, then why did they give in to Jerry's demand?....Enquiring minds want to know...

Weak MEC.

Name the better PBS systems that airlines are currently using. I know ours is better than Skywest, CAL, and DAL.

It's the only live PBS system out there. I don't think any US airline uses, only foreign carriers. It's pretty slick actually. Can't say right now what it is.

Yes they have.

Doubt it, unless that changed in the last month. Although it would take more than a month to do proper research.

The senior people can't get exactly what they want the first round at XJT, because they are bidding on schedules that the company built. I build my own schedule and put individual trips on the days I choose. Trust me when I say the senior folks can do much better with our PBS.

Ya, you know exactly what all our senior pilots want and get. The simple point being that the senior people will always get better trips regardless of the system. If circumstances change, our pilots have a chance at changing their schedule down to 60 hours or up to 100 hours, etc etc etc, during the ILIW and the SLIW.

Good luck with that. The negotiating environment is getting worse every day. Eagle is in BK and will be taking concessions. Pinnacle is right behind Eagle at the steps of the BK courthouse steps. I suspect CHQ/Republic/Shuttle isn't far behind. With the demands your MEC is after, this will drag out for years....fine by me....

That's a whole other issue that I don't necessarily disagree with. The thing is that what our MEC proposed actually helps the company. Management will see that in due time. If the demands of our MEC isn't at least as good as what we have now, I hope they do drag it out for years. Makes sense to me.

Why would it sink?

I don't think XJT would sink. I was just saying that personally for me, that's ok.

 

[sweptback]

It's the only live PBS system out there. I don't think any US airline uses, only foreign carriers. It's pretty slick actually. Can't say right now what it is.

So it gives you a running bid result? You know that will most likely be worthless unless you're #1, right? All it will take is for somebody senior to you to change their bid and then everybody who is junior has a different bid run.

 

[shadowpuppet]

For the life of me I can't understand why you two idiots are arguing over this. Neither one of you have any say in the way this process turns out except for your one vote on the JCBA. Yes Joe we all know that you want to protect your beloved seniority, and yes Nevets we know that you love to pretend that you are still in the mix making decisions about your future when you are not.

Here is a little reality check for both of you, Jerry doesn't care a damn bit about either one of your carriers, he cares about getting his Board off his behind and making money for the shareholders again PERIOD! The Delta Connection Biz is in the crapper and Jerry has taken notice. Pinnacle is going to be doing a hatchet job on their pilot's contract, and CHQ, ASA, and the rest of the Delta Connection carriers are going to have to follow suit. Now it doesn't take a rocket scientist to figure out that while ASA, SureJet, ExpressJet, etc. is growing the side of their business that doesn't have a widget on the tail (aka ERJ) they are going to control their costs on the Delta side (CRJ) by shrinking their exposure (aka furloughing pilots and shedding aircraft). You see SKYW INC. got themselves in a little bit of a bind since they can't seek concessions on a JCBA when the larger carrier (XJT) is growing and performing well, while the smaller carrier (ASA) is saddled to a lousy customer and shrinking. It just doesn't make a compelling case for a need to give up something when the larger carriers pilots are already concessionary, and doing ok for the time being.

Your problem isn't what bidding system you end up with in the JCBA process (although here is a hint, it will probably look a lot like SKYW's), your problem is having two solvent carriers with which to merge when it is all over.

 

[Nevets]

So it gives you a running bid result? You know that will most likely be worthless unless you're #1, right? All it will take is for somebody senior to you to change their bid and then everybody who is junior has a different bid run.

But you would know ahead of time which other trip you would get. Didn't seem worthless when I played with it. But who really knows. That's why it's gonna be used for our reserve/relief line holders. It will be figured out during real life trips.

For the life of me I can't understand why you two idiots are arguing over this. Neither one of you have any say in the way this process turns out except for your one vote on the JCBA. Yes Joe we all know that you want to protect your beloved seniority, and yes Nevets we know that you love to pretend that you are still in the mix making decisions about your future when you are not.

Here is a little reality check for both of you, Jerry doesn't care a damn bit about either one of your carriers, he cares about getting his Board off his behind and making money for the shareholders again PERIOD! The Delta Connection Biz is in the crapper and Jerry has taken notice. Pinnacle is going to be doing a hatchet job on their pilot's contract, and CHQ, ASA, and the rest of the Delta Connection carriers are going to have to follow suit. Now it doesn't take a rocket scientist to figure out that while ASA, SureJet, ExpressJet, etc. is growing the side of their business that doesn't have a widget on the tail (aka ERJ) they are going to control their costs on the Delta side (CRJ) by shrinking their exposure (aka furloughing pilots and shedding aircraft). You see SKYW INC. got themselves in a little bit of a bind since they can't seek concessions on a JCBA when the larger carrier (XJT) is growing and performing well, while the smaller carrier (ASA) is saddled to a lousy customer and shrinking. It just doesn't make a compelling case for a need to give up something when the larger carriers pilots are already concessionary, and doing ok for the time being.

Your problem isn't what bidding system you end up with in the JCBA process (although here is a hint, it will probably look a lot like SKYW's), your problem is having two solvent carriers with which to merge when it is all over.

I'm not even talking about contract negotiations. Just pointing out that they are going to try out a PBS system for the relief/reserve lineholder on the ERJ side. I know first hand how all this came about and have played around with this PBS. That's all I'm saying. Not trying to insinuate that I have anymore say other than my conversations with my MEC members and my vote (if it ever comes to that while I'm here).

I don't necessarily disagree with anything else you said. Especially the part about not taking agreeing to anything less than what we already have.

 

[wms]

So it gives you a running bid result? You know that will most likely be worthless unless you're #1, right? All it will take is for somebody senior to you to change their bid and then everybody who is junior has a different bid run.

Our fas already do a running result of sorts and It's worthless.

 

[Nevets]

Our fas already do a running result of sorts and It's worthless.

What is the PBS system they use?

 

[ratherbeflyen]

As an Erj guy, myself and most other pilots I know are not drawing a line in the sand saying absolutely no pbs ever! The line is being drawn about taking more concessions in pay or quality of life. While pbs may allow more people to get trips that they want, pbs is a staffing tool. The reason management wants pbs is because it saves them money. The cost savings comes through "efficient use of pilots." Pbs reduces the number of days you have off during a week of vacation or bidding conflicts between bid periods. The net result is less days off averaged over the entire pilot group. Less days off means they don't have to hire as many pilots that equals cost savings. I already work way too many days per month/year. If pbs (ASA's or otherwise) shows up on a TA with no improvements, it will be a no vote from me. I'm not exactly sure what it would take to get me to vote yes for pbs. It's going to have to be something to offset my pending lack of days off. Something like undeniable personal drops, an increased number of days off around a week of vacation. An increase in the minimum number of days off per month, a significant increase in the duty period minimum. Then again, if you implemented provisions for pilots to get more days off the cost savings for pbs might drop or be eliminated entirely and why would management sign off on it? I think that if you took a survey of all the Erj guys, something similar to my post would be the most prevalent response.

 

[79%N1]

Pbs reduces the number of days you have off during a week of vacation .

Wrong....


The myth that PBS only gives you 7 days off in a row is totally unfounded and fear mongering. Ask any ASA guy how they do in vacation months and you will see. It has, however, been discussed ad nauseum on here.

 

[Clutch]

Wrong....


The myth that PBS only gives you 7 days off in a row is totally unfounded and fear mongering. Ask any ASA guy how they do in vacation months and you will see. It has, however, been discussed ad nauseum on here.

The PBS vacation low kicks ass...