Even more quotes

[skanza]

I understand that and am not trying to change minds. I'm just trying to present a different point of view and at least have people acknowledge and consider it. That doesn't mean 'changing their mind' about it. But it seems that so many of the pro-unioners here are so caught up in it that they don't even consider the validity of the non-union viewpoint, even though I have considered the pro-union stance. This is how I make a well informed decision: Consider all sides.

Some examples that have made me not support the union tactics are: Writing up airplanes for the sole purpose of impacting the operation. Threatening a strike. Carrying discrepancies until the aircraft is in an inconvenient place for MX - just to affect the operation. Making up non-approved preflight lists that focus on grounding the aircraft instead of the claimed reason of being safe.
All of these are examples of things that I would not consider a professional to do - no matter what industry.

 

[brokeflyer]

I understand that and am not trying to change minds. I'm just trying to present a different point of view and at least have people acknowledge and consider it. That doesn't mean 'changing their mind' about it. But it seems that so many of the pro-unioners here are so caught up in it that they don't even consider the validity of the non-union viewpoint, even though I have considered the pro-union stance. This is how I make a well informed decision: Consider all sides.

Some examples that have made me not support the union tactics are: Writing up airplanes for the sole purpose of impacting the operation. Threatening a strike. Carrying discrepancies until the aircraft is in an inconvenient place for MX - just to affect the operation. Making up non-approved preflight lists that focus on grounding the aircraft instead of the claimed reason of being safe.
All of these are examples of things that I would not consider a professional to do - no matter what industry.

yup i hear ya....been there, done that, seen that, etc....

there is a simple solution, pay the pilots a fair wage, but simple and management dont work well together.

 

[RTRHD]

Some examples that have made me not support the union tactics are: Writing up airplanes for the sole purpose of impacting the operation. Threatening a strike. Carrying discrepancies until the aircraft is in an inconvenient place for MX - just to affect the operation. Making up non-approved preflight lists that focus on grounding the aircraft instead of the claimed reason of being safe.
All of these are examples of things that I would not consider a professional to do - no matter what industry.

Do you guys REALLY do that?????

 

[FR8DOG777]

Ain't no threat skumza, we gonna strike on october 19th. Legally and with the full legal process of the RLA. Boy you sure do look puuuurty in that new uniform, cept you'd look a bit more professional if it was just a head shot and it didn't show your kneepads, of course there's that leftover sperm from KENN on the corner of your mouth you forgot to wipe off. See you on the picket line spineless.

 

[jetwash]

Ain't no threat skumza, we gonna strike on october 19th. Legally and with the full legal process of the RLA.

My calculations were the first or second week of November due to the legal process. I am sure when the press release is issued to all of our owners that the exact date will be included so as to give them ample warning to make other arrangements.

 

[RTRHD]

Woops sorry Flops thread. Go ahead burn em down.

 

[skanza]

yup i hear ya....been there, done that, seen that, etc....

there is a simple solution, pay the pilots a fair wage, but simple and management dont work well together.

When did you start working here? Did you agree to the wage that was offered? If not, why did you take the job? Was your salary suddenly decreased after you started the job?

These need to be answered to validate your "Pay the pilots a fair wage" statement. But I'm sure you won't answer, you'll just come back with a snide remark about me being a scab, or how you don't care what I think, etc... Just think about these answers to yourself.

 

[skanza]

Ain't no threat skumza, we gonna strike on october 19th. Legally and with the full legal process of the RLA. Boy you sure do look puuuurty in that new uniform, cept you'd look a bit more professional if it was just a head shot and it didn't show your kneepads, of course there's that leftover sperm from KENN on the corner of your mouth you forgot to wipe off. -Seriously? With these kind of references? Grown up. See you on the picket line spineless.

Ok, so you stike. Owners are pissed off and leave. No more revenue for the company. Unable to cash paychecks. Nice. This is your plan to get an increase in pay? Brilliant!

 

[skanza]

My calculations were the first or second week of November due to the legal process. I am sure when the press release is issued to all of our owners that the exact date will be included so as to give them ample warning to make other arrangements.

...other arrangements to pay someone else to fly them. Again, nice plan fool.

 

[brokeflyer]

When did you start working here? Did you agree to the wage that was offered? If not, why did you take the job? Was your salary suddenly decreased after you started the job?

These need to be answered to validate your "Pay the pilots a fair wage" statement. But I'm sure you won't answer, you'll just come back with a snide remark about me being a scab, or how you don't care what I think, etc... Just think about these answers to yourself.

yes the wages did go down.....because everything else went up. House payments, gas, groceries, medical, beer, cable tv. etc etc etc

so the wages stayed the same and everything else went up in price, that is a pay cut.

any other questions?

Im retired now, so I dont have to fight with you anymore.

 

[dime line]

didnt we accept a 401K match as well, where did that go, skumza. I remember when co-pays were about 15 dollars. I remember when we were paid to live in cleveland, where did that all go? hell some guys got paid to park at the airport. Where did that go Skumza.

 

[FR8DOG777]

I have other skills besides flying airplanes for substandard living wages. I would be quite content with closing the doors permanently on those rat bastards just to show the other remaining fractionals what could happen to them when they treat the worker bee's so poorly. That list you so often complain about has been printed and given to every mx base we operate. It has also forced you cheap bastards to operate your equipment in a manner for which it was engineered and designed for. When you get out from under uncle Kenns desk if we don't have an industry standard contract in september, were burning this place down in November.

 

[Alaska82]

Do unions really pay more year after year? When the IBT takes 2.5% for dues and average inflation per year is 3.0%. So i need a 5.5% pay raise just to keep up with the Joneses. I think net jets gets on average a 3.5% raise every year so with my calculations they are losing 2.0% purchasing power every year. And if history repeats itself industry leading contracts at one time or another will force the union to take pay concessions. But if you sleep better at night thinking you are getting a pay raise every year more power to you. The real money makers in unions are people being paid by them not the people paying them.

I flew a Options the MX was and is top of the line. Pay is low, management knows this and wants to pay us more, they just don't want to bankrupt the company in the process. If we didn't have a union pay would already be higher. The union has cost me money if i take into account what Mike S wanted to give us and that i will probably be taking a pay cut every year after the contract except for that initial pay increase with regard to inflation.

So why does it make financial since to have a union when companies will most likely give a 3.0% to 3.5% raise every year anyway. I think having to pay 2.5% of your pay for life is really hurting pilots in the long run with regard to inflation.

The real winners in the Fractional industry are FLEX and 5 Star they got pay raises based off the market, they don't pay dues and actually have a chance at beating inflation if it stays around 3.0%.

I wish Flight Options would hire someone to teach a crash course in business finance to its employees. Union companies are slow to react to changes it the market place. Why do we want to give our company a competitive disadvantage in the market place? Why don't we get in line with managements goals of making money via profit sharing and stock options. Sharing in a profitable companies success it the very best way of actually beating inflation.

Can union Kool Aid drinkers even consider the opposing view? Please respond with intellectual stimulating responses.

This is not my account and i am too cheap to pay the $10 fee. So i will have to read from the side lines after this post.

 

[fischman]

1 hour of OT that I get from our union negotiated contract pays for my dues. I MAKE money by having to pay union dues.

 

[jetwash]

If we didn't have a union pay would already be higher. The union has cost me money if i take into account what Mike S wanted to give us and that i will probably be taking a pay cut every year after the contract except for that initial pay increase with regard to inflation.

I think having to pay 2.5% of your pay for life is really hurting pilots in the long run with regard to inflation.


Can union Kool Aid drinkers even consider the opposing view? Please respond with intellectual stimulating responses.

This is not my account and i am too cheap to pay the $10 fee. So i will have to read from the side lines after this post.

First of all, it is 1.56% of base pay which the pilots voted for.

Second, just like they took away the 401k match they could have given everyone a raise 3 years ago, no argument from the union.

Too cheap to pay the $10? Could this be because you work for the lowest paid fractional?

 

[BeeDubya]

Do unions really pay more year after year? When the IBT takes 2.5% for dues and average inflation per year is 3.0%. So i need a 5.5% pay raise just to keep up with the Joneses. I think net jets gets on average a 3.5% raise every year so with my calculations they are losing 2.0% purchasing power every year.

Dues do not compound. Once you take the initial dues "hit" the ongoing effect on spending power is negligible. It is mathematically incorrect to add and subtract percentages the way you are. The effect of dues on spending power is accomplished by multiplying the percentages. So the effect of dues on spending at NJASAP (considering 3.5% raise and 1.5% dues) is 0.0525%, less than 6 hundredths of a percent.

 

[harley30344]

Dues do not compound. Once you take the initial dues "hit" the ongoing effect on spending power is negligible. It is mathematically incorrect to add and subtract percentages the way you are. The effect of dues on spending power is accomplished by multiplying the percentages. So the effect of dues on spending at NJASAP (considering 3.5% raise and 1.5% dues) is 0.0525%, less than 6 hundredths of a percent.

Man--no wonder your one of the union gurus--you spun that so nicely. I don't think he was talking about the effect of dues on spending at njasap. If I read it correctly he was talking about the effect of dues on his take home pay and thus HIS spending power. Just saying..... But got to hand it to you that was a very nice turn away from his point. Ever thought about a future in politics? I mean other than the union level of course.

 

[brokeflyer]

harley....cheer up. You are one of the top 3 most depressed, whinny, cry-babies i've ever seen on here.

Go get a dog or start drinking, be glad you got a job.

 

[TurboHonda]

Man--no wonder your one of the union gurus--you spun that so nicely. I don't think he was talking about the effect of dues on spending at njasap. If I read it correctly he was talking about the effect of dues on his take home pay and thus HIS spending power. Just saying..... But got to hand it to you that was a very nice turn away from his point. Ever thought about a future in politics? I mean other than the union level of course.

I don’t think he spun it at all. He simply explained what 95% of the readers, including casual and uninformed observers, picked up on immediately. The dues are roughly 1.5% period. They do not change to 3.0% in year two and 4.5% in year three, etc.
Therefore, future pay raises are not reduced by dues, any more than they would be by taxes and social security.

If Alaska82’s guest wants to dazzle us with creative math, he needs to stop after year one.

 

[harley30344]

harley....cheer up. You are one of the top 3 most depressed, whinny, cry-babies i've ever seen on here.

Go get a dog or start drinking, be glad you got a job.

Top 3 only--man I need to try harder! I do like your idea about a dog and drinking. Hope that doesn't drop me out of the top 3....