Email from Airtran MEC: Secret MOU between SWA and SWAPA

[SWA/FO]

Ok... then if you did have some would they be doing "well"? Also, when you get over here (this side) there is a place on swalife where you can list them and advertise for employees to rent them (FYI).

 

[madjack]

SWA has a plan and it will stick to it..,we have seen what upsetting the plan can cost in this merger (SL9 vs SL10)...victory in negotiations with SWA is defined as not getting in the way of the plan while finding ways to share the potential success.

 

[Kharma Police]

SWA has a plan and it will stick to it..,we have seen what upsetting the plan can cost in this merger (SL9 vs SL10)...victory in negotiations with SWA is defined as not getting in the way of the plan while finding ways to share the potential success.

Wow, not sure if that was Vince Lombardi or Yogi Berra?

 

[tankerhead]

Chris Walken.

 

[funnyman12]

Not that there is much of a chance of this happening....what if the DRC claim gets to arbitration and somehow the SLI agreement gets thrown out? What would GK or SWAPA do? It would be required to gotoarbitration in this unlikely scenario.

 

[redflyer65]

The list can't be changed even if the DRC moves forward. It's written into the agreement.

So it really can't be 'thrown out'. It stands by itself.

 

[Phlintstone]

The DRC CANNOT overturn the SLI, what it could do is pay protect all the folks awarded 717CA and might award displacement rights. It could also transfer the 717CA seats to 737CA seats but that conflicts with other statements elsewhere in agreement. That could trigger a DRC from SWAPA. It is going to be more muddy before it becomes more clear.

Phred

 

[madjack]

So an arbitrator could award SWA 737 seats/pay to AAI 717 CPs out of SLI seniority order?

Sounds like a Redo of SL10...the argument for/against this possibility will be whether SWA had the right to change its plans for the 717 post SL10.

SWAPA could argue that AAI is bringing fewer seats to the table and the SLI should reflect that fact....

Better to let it go...

 

[fletch717]

So an arbitrator could award SWA 737 seats/pay to AAI 717 CPs out of SLI seniority order?

Sounds like a Redo of SL10...the argument for/against this possibility will be whether SWA had the right to change its plans for the 717 post SL10.

SWAPA could argue that AAI is bringing fewer seats to the table and the SLI should reflect that fact....

Better to let it go...

That was not the case when SLI 10 was voted on, one could argue that SLI 10 should be renegotiated based on the sale of the 717 when SWA was telling us before the vote closed that the 717 were staying. I'll gladly take my chances with a neutral arbitrator and accept any decision.

 

[Phlintstone]

So an arbitrator could award SWA 737 seats/pay to AAI 717 CPs out of SLI seniority order?

Why not. Hardly anything is being done in seniority order anyway. It would not protect current 717CAs, only those awarded 717CA in the transition bid. That bid was done in (OAT) seniority order. It could be argued that they had a reasonable expectation to be a CA on 1/1/2015 and therefore should be compensated now that the company decided to divest itself of the 717.

I really do not know what an arbitrator would pull out of his butt. It could be nothing. I do think there will be an "award" of some type but there is almost no telling what it could be. The only thing I know the arbitrator cannot do is scrap the combined seniority order.

The rumor on this side is that SWAPA is really concerned about this DRC. I think the exact quote is "really scared that we will win it" without defining what a "win" will look like. I think it is comical the ALPO chest thumping lately and the crew room antics by maxblast and her concubines. I am ready for all this crap to over like yesterday...

Phred

 

[redflyer65]

The whole thing has hardly been mentioned on this side, so I'm not sure how worried SWAPA is. If they are, it isn't showing.

I agree with it being over. Let's move on.

 

[madjack]

SWA says it will stick to the transition timeline...if they can't or don't and 717s remain in service post 1/15 SWAPA will grieve it...

 

[Kharma Police]

SWA says it will stick to the transition timeline...if they can't or don't and 717s remain in service post 1/15 SWAPA will grieve it...

Okay, definitely Yogi Berra this time.

 

[madjack]

Depends on your perspective...the point is the DRC is not as important to SWAPA as the company's intent/ability to meet the 1/15 deadline...

 

[SWA/FO]

Depends on your perspective...the point is the DRC is not as important to SWAPA as the company's intent/ability to meet the 1/15 deadline...

Company has weekend ground school "Knights" remaining AT Pilots into SWA Pilots and tells SWAPA - "Whew! We met the deadline! All Pilots are now SWA/SWAPA Pilots."

 

[HowardBorden]

That was not the case when SLI 10 was voted on, one could argue that SLI 10 should be renegotiated based on the sale of the 717 when SWA was telling us before the vote closed that the 717 were staying. I'll gladly take my chances with a neutral arbitrator and accept any decision.

Absolutely wrong. There are multiple mentions of 717 fleet reductions in SL10. If you chose to ignore those provisions, you did so at your own peril. From SL10:

"After December 31, 2014, AirTran pilots whose seat positions are eliminated by the reduction of the reductions of the B717 fleet will bid system seniority for their new assignment."

"Q. In the event that B717's are replaced with different aircraft, will B717 captains keep their captain seats?

A. AirTran pilots whose seat position is eliminated by reduction of the B717 fleet will bid system seniority for their new assignment. (27.F.2.)"

The 717's are being replaced in the SWA fleet, they are being replaced with 737's. Some are coming from the transition of former AT 73's and some are being replaced with SWA 737's that were previously scheduled for retirement.

 

[humveedriver]

Why would you even post that? It talks about the 717 going away after 31 DEC 2014, not before. Brother we all knew the plane was going away. The 717 lease schedule is tattooed to our forearms. The plane is leaving ahead of schedule. That's what this is all about. It screws us and your FO's. Notice the Q&A's doesn't say "after 31DEC2014 displaced 717 pilots can bid what their system seniority can hold, this will exclude 737 Captain seats because these have been secured through a MOU you know nothing about". This thing will run its course and that will be that.

 

[madjack]

I hope we grow

 

[HowardBorden]

Why would you even post that? It talks about the 717 going away after 31 DEC 2014, not before. Brother we all knew the plane was going away. The 717 lease schedule is tattooed to our forearms. The plane is leaving ahead of schedule. That's what this is all about. It screws us and your FO's. This thing will run its course and that will be that.

The Q and A section mentions nothing about dates, it only mentions what will happen if the 717 is replaced with "different" aircraft. It was a direct response to fletch717, that was directly quoted by me. He states that: "That was not the case when SLI 10 was voted on, one could argue that SLI 10 should be renegotiated based on the sale of the 717 when SWA was telling us before the vote closed that the 717 were staying." That is the reason for my quotes from the document, I don't believe his assertion to be correct.

"Q. In the event that B717's are replaced with different aircraft, will B717 captains keep their captain seats?

A. AirTran pilots whose seat position is eliminated by reduction of the B717 fleet will bid system seniority for their new assignment. (27.F.2.)"

 

[madjack]

Where in the agreement does it state SWA has to keep the 717 on the property until after 31DEC14?...nobody really benefits by the 717 going away early...can SWAPA sue SWA for the overstaffing and reduced line totals as a result of the early departure of the 717?


Your airline was bought and changed ...but no jobs are being lost and given the differences in career expectations.no arbitrator will agree that AAI pilots are being harmed, after all your in the airline biz. Turning down SL9 won't help your case either.

 

[humveedriver]

I edited my response while you were typing. Sorry bout that. There's really nothing any of us can do at this point. Unions are going to do their union stuff, and we keeping flying the planes. I understand what you are saying about the date. Is it too hard to see from our standpoint? We had leases that were due to expire starting 2017. The transition was supposed to end 2015. The Q&A's pick up reductions and bidding after the transition was scheduled to be over. Didn't make me think they would accelerate their departure. That's all.

 

[HowardBorden]

I edited my response while you were typing. Sorry bout that. There's really nothing any of us can do at this point. Unions are going to do their union stuff, and we keeping flying the planes.

No worries, I actually agree with you assessment. Sometimes I see what I consider to be false info being put out there that can be directly refuted by the documents that were signed so I quote those documents. In the end you are right we just keep flying the planes and let the rest work itself out.

 

[humveedriver]

No worries, I actually agree with you assessment. Sometimes I see what I consider to be false info being put out there that can be directly refuted by the documents that were signed so I quote those documents. In the end you are right we just keep flying the planes and let the rest work itself out.

I did it again. Edited after you quoted me. I guess we saw what we wanted to see. But it made sense at the same time, to phase out the 717 after the transition.

 

[rjfo]

You. Maybe 5 years now. You went to SWA from Pinnacle. What gives you some special right to question any AirTran pilot's skills, abilities or marketability?



When Delta was hiring, I had already been a line-holding Captain for several years. I was making more than any Delta pilot with similar longevity . . . and I was happy. What business is it of yours, anyway?

What a putz. :laugh:

The guy that went from pinnacle and got hired by swa. And your math stinks, 06 hire...
My business is I was answering your boy, or girl Brit and you. Thx Richard put roll eye cute thing here.
Am I not allowed to comment on your private banter, sorry I'll go back to reading how AT is getting screwed. Once all the717s are gone and there r hundreds sitting around waiting for training getting paid. It'll be so tough collecting the pay and benefits, my heart bleeds for you.
What a putz. Roll eye thing. Many apologies from this lowly former pinnacle pilot who obviously had no skills.

 

[Ty Webb]

When you say something like this:

Doubt it, you were at Air Tran for a reason. If you had other options you would've exercised them already.

and this:

When delta was hiring you and Brit stayed at AT cuz it rocked so much.

You should expect someone to knock your dork in the dirt.

 

[madjack]

You stayed at AAI in ATL and were bought, if you had gone to DAL you would not have been bought by SWA...but you are not starting out at the bottom at your new employer...matter of fact you will be a SWA CP after 1/15...congrats it all seemed to work out for you...

 

[Ty Webb]

Dude, don't bother.

This message is hidden because madjack is on your ignore list.

 

[redflyer65]

You stayed at AAI in ATL and were bought, if you had gone to DAL you would not have been bought by SWA...but you are not starting out at the bottom at your new employer...matter of fact you will be a SWA CP after 1/15...congrats it all seemed to work out for you...

That's what I was thinking. After he made CA at AAI did he feel he 'had it made'? So no reason to start over at another carrier (like Delta), or be concerned about being bought?

 

[waveflyer]

I've always said the same thing-

AT may have been many pilots end goal-
Quick seniority, for many- a quick upgrade- upside if it keeps on- Southeast bases-

I don't begrudge any of that or disrespect anyone's credentials-

What I have said is that AT wasnt southwest yet- just like if UAL had bought SWA in 1990, SWA wasn't up to their end yet-
You have to have perspective in this business-
On the SWA side a bit of humility realizing SWA hadn't always been the 800lb gorilla and remember what it was like when UAL pilots treated SWA pilots like dirt-
And for AT same thing- a but of humility- your careers were not set in stone at any time or at any seniority level there-
You made the choice to stay at AT and got bought- that can happen with a LOT worse consequences-
Think long term and think about your friends who haven't had it so lucky and get your minds right-

Mergers & acquisitions have had way worse consequences than either side is experiencing-

So why are y'all having the same conversations over and over and over and over for years on end??

So pointless- please tell me you can be more interesting than that-

As far as I'm concerned it's all irrelevant opinions about water under a bridge that is a long way upstream from where we are now

The question now is what are YOU doing to make sure this works out as well as it can for yourself and the rest of our ENTIRE pilot group and company?

What are you pro-actively doing?

Are you responsible for you, or are you a victim of circumstance?

 

[ATLplt]

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