E-190s at AWA/US Mainline?

[FeelingBlue]

I would question that. I just don't see Embraer cutting themselves out of potential sales for a three year period.

That's cool but you'll find the answer remains the same.

 

[Bdfg1]

That's cool but you'll find the answer remains the same.

No it doesn't

 

[Heavy Set]

heavy set go away, this board is for the adults. STOP pretending to be a pilot.

FL280,

Can you tuck me into bed and read me a story?

You're hilarious!!!!!! Wake up - get your hours and get off your lazy a$$ and apply to a major - unless you want a regional income for the rest of your life...

 

[Spinplate]

This is a very simple message: regionals should NOT be flying 100 seat aircraft at lower regional wages. Instead, regional pilots who want to fly 100 seaters SHOULD APPLY to the majors/LCCs that will invariably offer higher long-term pay than the regionals.... Do you think CHQ will pay you more over time than a Jet Blue or Air Tran? Don't bring the 100-seat wage level down to regional levels - instead, keep 100 seater wages respectable and keep them in the majors (even though Jet Blue's E190 wage is too low - hopefully that will change in time).

Regional pilots who want to keep 100 seat flying should get off their a$$es and apply to the LCCs or mainline carriers that are hiring... That's my $0.02.

CHQ does pay more in the long run than JetBlue does. I think after year 7 or 8 it surpasses JetBlues payscale. check it! http://www.airlinepilotcentral.com/

year 12 ooops! Its pretty much the same!

 

[FR8mastr]

How does this work? If AWA ALPA wants to scope regionals out of the E190 market and they get payrates ready, can management still put these aircraft at the regionals? Do both sides have to agree on this?

No, as of now the 190 are scoped out of anything but ML flying, this was just reafirmed with an ageement between Mgmt and the HP & the AAA MEC's. This would have to change for the 190's to be outsourced now.

 

[sleeves]

This is a very simple message: regionals should NOT be flying 100 seat aircraft at lower regional wages. Instead, regional pilots who want to fly 100 seaters SHOULD APPLY to the majors/LCCs that will invariably offer higher long-term pay than the regionals.... Do you think CHQ will pay you more over time than a Jet Blue or Air Tran? Don't bring the 100-seat wage level down to regional levels - instead, keep 100 seater wages respectable and keep them in the majors (even though Jet Blue's E190 wage is too low - hopefully that will change in time).

Regional pilots who want to keep 100 seat flying should get off their a$$es and apply to the LCCs or mainline carriers that are hiring... That's my $0.02.

The bottom line is that Regional pilots really do not have a say in what A/C their company uses. When I was at the regional level I knew that every new RJ I sat in delayed my upward mobility that much further. I was powerless to do anything about it.

 

[Dizel8]

CHQ does pay more in the long run than JetBlue does. I think after year 7 or 8 it surpasses JetBlues payscale. check it!

Somehow I doubt there will be any 12 year jetblue guys at that payscale, much less 3, but hey, you think CHQ is getting anything bigger??

 

[UALjan15]

...As I predicted, the "mainline" groups will start underbidding the regional rates to capture the flying. Maybe PCL128 can explain to me how this is a good thing. What good are more "mainline" jobs if they pay less than my lowly little "regional" job? .

I think you and everyone else know the answer to this question, and if you don't, you certainly shouldn't be trusted to fly anything with retractable gear. The "underbidding" is to entice management to get the airplane (and all of the "regional" flying we've been losing to you) on our seniority list, not yours. Pay rates can be negotiated later when we have more leverage, but once 100 seat flying has been lost to the Regional cancer, it will be curtains for everyone who's not on international equipment.

Maybe we should start undercutting mainline to fly the 737, 757, and 777?

I know you'd love to....which is why scope is so important. I don't know why we all worry so much about foreign cabotage when we have guys like you that have been doing it to us right in front of our eyes!

This is no surprise to many of us - we saw this coming. Regional guys WAKE UP! The mainline will do ANYTHING to protect it's own, even if it means undercutting the regionals. Start looking out for yourselves instead of kissing their a$

You're dammn right we will protect what is ours....I just wish we had resolved to do it 10 years ago at the 50 seat level instead of today after so much damage has already been done. And Regional guys, I agree on one thing with this loser, it is time to wake up! The rampant looting of mainline flying will not last forever, and it looks like it just may stop in the 90-100 seat market. From a professional pilot's perspective, everything just works much better when young pilots do a stint at a regional and then MOVE ON to a final/larger carrier. The entitlement philosophy of some of the career regional pilots has really thrown this career into a tailspin.

Maybe this is all a bit harsh, but sorry....it's been building up over the last 3 years when I lost my job to you. I don't want to see it happen again.

 

[Dizel8]

The best thing we could do, is to get one seniority list within the airlines. You start on the prop/RJ you end up on the A-380/B787.

The problem is now, that a regional pilot is not about to give up his gig to start over or be stapled on the seniority list. So the RJ guy will fight for more, and bigger, airplanes and mainline will have to adjust what they are willing to accept.

 

[smokey999]

CHQ does pay more in the long run than JetBlue does. I think after year 7 or 8 it surpasses JetBlues payscale. check it! http://www.airlinepilotcentral.com/

year 12 ooops! Its pretty much the same!

True, but the whole point of a lot of this thread is that at JB you can move over to the Airbus and top out at 139/hr. The most you'll ever make at CHQ is 104. (not to mention stock options and better bennies at JB)

In the "long run" you'll do much much better at JB.

 

[RIDETHELIGHTING]

[/QUOTE]True, but the whole point of a lot of this thread is that at JB you can move over to the Airbus and top out at 139/hr. The most you'll ever make at CHQ is 104. (not to mention stock options and better bennies at JB).

So that makes it ok to have crappy EMb190 rates. Wake up

 

[michael707767]

That's cool but you'll find the answer remains the same.

fine, show me some proof. I have read every press release I could find, and not one says anything about it. Further, I think USAir in some form was planning on operating the 190 before 08. Like I said, I question it, can't prove it. Why don't you show me?

 

[mdanno808]

The job of each MEC is to look out for their respective pilot group. The fact that the E 190 will be flown at mainline goes to show that the MEC is doing exactly that. They are preserving jobs. As far as scoffing at the pay rates, think about this: What are career expectations at CMR? What about at the mainline companies? How many CMR pilot's will break 6 figures this year? Not many. Pay may be crappy to start, but they will certainly be making a lot of money 10 years down the line. The decision to keep the 190 at mainline is preserving job's, and in the long run creating them.

 

[Superpilot92]

The best thing we could do, is to get one seniority list within the airlines. You start on the prop/RJ you end up on the A-380/B787.

The problem is now, that a regional pilot is not about to give up his gig to start over or be stapled on the seniority list. So the RJ guy will fight for more, and bigger, airplanes and mainline will have to adjust what they are willing to accept.

Not true, i am a regional guy that would love for this to happen. I dont want to stay at a regional my whole life. Just my two pennies!!


Discuss

 

[GuinessGuy]

Why all the turmoil about the dang E-190. It was never a problem when Biz Ex was running the Bae146 for Delta Connection. It's not a problem that Mesaba is running the Bae146 for NWA Airlink. It's not a problem for Air Wisconsin running the Bae146 for United Express.
This "line-in-the-sand" should have been drawn fifteen years ago.
I agree, I think the E-190 and the old Bae146 should not be and never been "express/connection/airlink" branded platforms.
This fight is almost two decades late, but you want them now because the industry niche is the "large smalljet."

Why didn't mainline crews want them "back in the day"???

Republics E-190 Capt rates are better than B6. With a fairly good contract to boot.

Why is it OK for B6 to operate the E-190 and not Republic???

 

[Bigbeerbelly]

The best thing we could do, is to get one seniority list within the airlines. You start on the prop/RJ you end up on the A-380/B787.

I think this is a bit overkill. I am however in full support of an industry wide payscale determined by aircraft type. For example CRJ CA year 1=$65/hr to year 12=$100. The race to the bottom has to end and as long as airlines can whipsaw work groups against eachother it will continue. Does anyone know why ALPA has not explored this yet. It seems to work great for the plumbing profession.

BBB

 

[Dewey Oxberger]

I'm confused by all this talk of the CHQ E-190 pay scale. In their contract I only see a scale for 79-99 seat jets. The E-190 is a 100 seat jet. Shouldn't a new scale have to be negotiated?

 

[Crzipilot]

Here's the pay rates for the 190 on mainline. has provisions which if 4 airlines put the 190 into service and their top pay is in excess of the pay scale reflected, then alpo and serve section 6 notice with the company to renegotiate the scale. Pilots recalled to the 190 f/o position can bypass without affecting their recall in accordance the US CBA. In addition furloughed pilots will be offered vacancies at AWA with some terms attached to that. If not enough takers for those vacancies, AWA may hire off the street but they will be jr. to those on the combined list. Which does include the fuloughed pilots.

Also the rates are still subject to ratification.

I couldn't get the formatting right, but the numbers should be justified to the right......


US EMB 190 Captain Rates
2006 2008 2009 2010 2011 2012 2013 2014 2015
1 78.57 78.57 78.57 78.57 80.14 80.14 81.74 81.74
2 80.36 80.36 80.36 80.36 81.96 81.96 83.60 83.60
3 82.14 82.14 82.14 82.14 83.79 83.79 85.46 85.46
4 83.96 83.96 83.96 83.96 85.63 85.63 87.35 87.35
5 85.82 85.82 85.82 85.82 87.54 87.54 89.29 89.29
6 87.53 87.53 87.53 87.53 89.28 89.28 91.07 91.07
7 89.29 89.29 89.29 89.29 91.07 91.07 92.90 92.90
8 91.07 91.07 91.07 91.07 92.89 92.89 94.75 94.75
9 92.89 92.89 92.89 92.89 94.75 94.75 96.64 96.64
10 94.74 94.74 94.74 94.74 96.64 96.64 98.57 98.57
11 96.64 96.64 96.64 98.58 98.58 100.55 100.55
12 98.58 98.58 100.55 100.55 102.56 102.56


US EMB 190 First Officer Rates

2006 2009 2010 2011 2012 2013 2014 2015
1 41.22 41.22 41.22 41.22 42.05 42.05 42.89 42.89
2 43.72 43.72 43.72 43.72 44.60 44.60 45.49 45.49
3 46.22 46.22 46.22 46.22 47.15 47.15 48.09 48.09
4 48.72 48.72 48.72 48.72 49.70 49.70 50.69 50.69
5 51.13 51.13 51.13 51.13 52.16 52.16 53.20 53.20
6 52.16 52.16 52.16 52.16 53.20 53.20 54.26 54.26
7 53.20 53.20 53.20 54.26 54.26 55.35 55.35
8 54.26 54.26 55.34 55.34 56.45 56.45
9 55.34 56.45 56.45 57.58 57.58
10 57.58 57.58 58.74 58.74
11 58.73 59.90 59.90
12 61.11 61.11

 

[FeelingBlue]

fine, show me some proof. I have read every press release I could find, and not one says anything about it. Further, I think USAir in some form was planning on operating the 190 before 08. Like I said, I question it, can't prove it. Why don't you show me?

Dude,

Think about it. 100 a/c intial order w/ options for 100 more. Don't you think that you would get something for being the launch customer for a new a/c? That being said, they probably won't let me down in to HQ to photocopy the contract for you. However, I have it from someone in the "know" that the deal is two years from start of service no domestic deliveries. Believe it or don't, my friend, but that is the way it is.

 

[LittleDeuce]

190 Pay Rates

Crzipilot;

Would you please provide the source for those pay rates?

I do not see any thing on our web site but I may have missed it.

Thanks.