DW is mad at Jetblue

[IB6 UB9]

I believe it is both...my girl refers to it as taint. Ask her...she likes a good debate!

 

[G4G5]

Lets see: DC-7 or A320, 8 hours is 8 hours.
Give me a break!!


All this angst about arriving at JFK during the 'evening rush' or 'bad weather' And arrival into JFK is the same in bad weather [actually easier!] as in VFR.

Please, am I the only one here who thinks that this response is stupid. Flying in bad weather (snow, ice, thunderstorms, ect) is "actually eaiser then VFR". Try explaining that one to the FAA. I would love to be able to do my next recurrent in the "harder" Day light only visual Sim. Maybe you can talk them out of requiring those 500/500/500 takeoff's, they are way to easy anyway.

The Bus autolands, so if it is crap WX let it land. Are you too tired to hang onto the tiller and taxi to the gate??

So B6 should have hired a monkey instead of you. That snow storm last month when Polar was sitting at the end of RWY 4 (after sliding off the end). The wx at JFK was aweful that night but your answer after a west coast turn for the guy arriving into JFK on the flight prior to or just after Polar slid off the rwy:

the same guy who:
Just flew 28 hours in 3 days is;
Who has been flying all week on the back side of the clock because he is a west coast commuter;
Who is rushing, because he was to hours late off gate because he had to fly through that "actually easier" west coast rain/thunder shower;
Who wants to try and catch the last commuter flight back home;
Let me get this straight your answer is: "just do an Auto land if you are tired"
Tell me that all B6 guys aren't this pathetic

And all the angst about a tough duty day, how tough is JFK-ROC-JFK-FLL-JFK for 7:50 ?? This is easy?? with maybe three different cabin crews to be briefed? Throw in ten wheel chairs in and out of FLL and try to stay on schedule. THis is easy??

I agree that it is tough but no one is running to the FAA trying to make it any worse, oh yeah that's right you guys are.

Or have a 0600 show, 0700 go and return at 1930. Brief once, only one turn, load the box once or twice, piece of cake.

And instead of 7:50, credit would be 11:50.

Get to the 'pad at 2030, asleep by 2130, up at 0500, back at it again.

Sounds like heaven to me. My bank account is salivating.

Everyone is foaming at the mouth over this, read the proposal. Lets see what happens

If mgt has the ability to build these types of pairings today imagine what they can build if you only open the door a little further. If it bothers you than just go to the USAToday or the WSJ and explain to them how bad the current system is. No one says the current system is perfect but it's the rules we all play by and some how we all manage to get the job done

I will keep it real symple for you and anyone else who trys to justify it.

EXPLAIN TO US HOW THIS IMPROVES SAFETY!.
If you can some how manage to tell yourself that the NASA, FSI , Yada Yada studies are a bunch of BS. I would love to hear how this improves safety.

No need to respond this was one of the most pathetic post I have ever read.

 

[8vATE]

I Maybe I'm wrong, if not...Show me the DATA!

V2

I saw him yesterday...
He was dodging a laser drill...


Gotta love android crewmembers..

That's the final solution you know..
Borg or Android pilots...

Just listen to G Lee..
The amount of time he spends on a keyboard..
He must be hard wired to it....

Too bad for the bad programming!

 

[Dizel8]

"So B6 should have hired a monkey instead of you."

Actually, they tried to replace us with monkeys, but apparently there was a small problem: the monkeys would work for peanuts, not blue chips.

 

[8vATE]

It You are so easy to read. GL, you remind me of taint. Do you know what taint is?

You are where I use to be ....


But I've thrown in the towel..
At least symbolically..


He's tooooo predictable!!!

Plus..
Have pity on him...
Its a tough thing facing all this work related doubt and anxiety..

Saw a lot of that during my brief USAirways stint..


(is today April 1?)

 

[B6Guy]

You answered yourself

g4g5 you answered yourself. From a safety standpoint you stated 'the guy who just flew 28hrs in three days on the wrong side of the clock' . This is exactly what this exemption is proposed to reduce!!! Fewer pairings flying day after day on the wrong side of the clock!!! DOH!! If the guy is a west coaster who commuted in and didn't get enough rest he's a fool. Shame on him!

As for 'easier in bad WX' Yes, in bad WX the controllers don't try to cram as many approaches into the same time span, ask you to see that G4, or RJ 'only' 4 miles in front of you so you can 'follow him, cleared for the visual' . Or worse having to follow right behind a heavy with light winds and deal with the wake. The longer downwind legs in bad wx are a drag, but needed for the approach spacing. What's the problem?

So yes, bad WX makes the approach environment easier, that's the way I see it. As for Ice, thunderstorms, rain etc. Those decisions are for the most part taken away from us in the NY area, the traffic is diverted or put in holding patterns till the WX improves. If the WX is getting exciting, you aren't going to be sleepy anyway.

You are compairing 'arriving at JFK' at the end of one of these exempted WCTs to a 500/500/500 takeoff. This is compairing apples to oranges. There will be a rest period after a WCT. Before you leave on your next trip. If you can't handle them, don't bid them.

As for the Autoland, maybe you haven't seen what the Bus can do, it is amazing how well it can autoland. Maybe you need to check it out. If the wx is so bad that the autoland is not allowed, then make a 'command decision' and go to another airport!

And if you are a G4/G5 guy, you know how easy a turn with a downloaded flight plan is. Piece of cake. You know the workload in a full glass cockpit, what do you do that wears you out so? Memorize the flight manual? Study for a class?? Are you nervous being a pilot. ??

Re-read your paragraph about the guy who is just before or just after [??] the Polar flight that went off the runway. After a WCT. Then you try to tie it into a guy who who has flown 28 hrs on the wrong side if the clock. Who is chasing after his commute home, etc. I don't see the correlation.

As for patheic posts your's takes the prize, sit back and take a breath or two. You are flying a G5?? on Salary?? so I can see maybe you have an interest in this: more work for the same pay. If you flew by the hour like a 121 guy does you would see that this exemption could improve your QOL drastically
You are not scheduled, so I doubt it could ever effect you. So I'm not sure you 'have a dog in this fight'

CHILL OUT wipe the foam off your lips Relax. It will be at least a year for any outcome anyway.

 

[SUNDOWN]

G4G5 You seem to have a lot to say about this. I am curious, how many pilots does your company use on the GV. And what kind of trips do you fly under Part 91. From what I hear thats a pretty long range jet.

 

[B6Guy]

Better example

g4/g5, A better example of VFR being tougher than IFR: VFR, wind 220/12G22 JFK using the VOR 13L If it is IFR, then we use a straight in on the 22's, either an ILS, or RNAV/GPS, or VOR, all of which are much easier to do than the VOR 13L.
This is SOP at JFK.

Get it??

 

[Neubyfly]

If JB wants to do turns that are over 8 hours there is a simple solution..... put a third pilot on the airplane!

 

[Chest Rockwell]

Just one? Why not two.

 

[skykid]

This is SOP at JFK.

Get it??

Wow, JFK sounds cool! Do you need a special rating to go in there?

 

[Dizel8]

Nope, just have to be a smart @rse, so you are cleared for the VOR 13L

 

[skykid]

Cool, and since JFK has those crazy crosswinds, how do you do that, just land in a crab like a T-38 or what? Do you think crosswinds will spread to the rest of the country? I know old timers who got to retire before windshear, maybe I can retire before crosswinds.

 

[Dizel8]

Hey, most of time, I am happy if I hit any part of the pavement.

As for retiring before x winds, with the age 60 change, that is not going to happen!

 

[skykid]

Been wanting to ask you for awhile - is that a un-doctored picture on your avatar? I understand the joke with the pretty face comment and all, I'm just wondering if that is an actual picture, or did you have to paste the face on there. I like it, just curious.

 

[Dizel8]

As far as I know, it is the real thing, well most of it anyway

 

[G4G5]

G4G5 You seem to have a lot to say about this. I am curious, how many pilots does your company use on the GV. And what kind of trips do you fly under Part 91. From what I hear thats a pretty long range jet.

We base our crew duty limits upon the FSI Foundation recommendations. Which is basicly anything above 12 hours gets a third pilot
http://www.flightsafety.org/home.html


Our rule of thumb takes into account a variety of options:
We do 2 pilots up to 14 hours If their is only one leg or less then 3 time zone changes (North/ South). Multiple legs/Multiple time zones above 12 hrs we add a 3rd pilot up until 18. Then we do 2 crews.

This is the last trip I was on, I will use it as an example:
NY to Mumbai, with a tech stop in Helsinki, 3 pilots (under 18). Then we flew the boss to Sydney, above 12 hrs, 3 pilots. The boss wanted to do Sydney back to NY. We repositioned one of the pilots to Honolulu and brought in a part timer, above 18 equals 2 full crews.

I have done this long enough to know that their is no perfect answer, lucky for me I have a boss that defers to safety instead of cost.

 

[G4G5]

B6Guy
g4g5 you answered yourself. From a safety standpoint you stated 'the guy who just flew 28hrs in three days on the wrong side of the clock' . This is exactly what this exemption is proposed to reduce!!!

I think that you are missing my point on the 28 hour flown (re read my post). What B6 is asking is to let guys schedule more time in fewer days.
Day1 JFK-LGB-JFK turn = 11.5
Day2 JFK-FLL-JFK turn = 5.0
Day3 JFK-LGB-JFK turn= 11.5

What b6 is asking is to let guys fly west coast turns, this will allow pilots to achieve their 30 in 7 limits faster. Who here (especially commuters) wouldn't love to get 84 hours (28 x 3) in just 9 days. With what you are asking guys could be doing 6+ west coast turns every month, this doesn't improve safety one bit.

Fewer pairings flying day after day on the wrong side of the clock!!! DOH!! If the guy is a west coaster who commuted in and didn't get enough rest he's a fool. Shame on him!

Shame on him? Tell that to the folks/families who paid good money to get to there destinations safetly. When an engine has a sudden stopage failure at V1 with full pax and full fuel on the way out to the coast (500/500/500 takeoff) "Shame on him" is not what I want to read in the NTSB report.

As for 'easier in bad WX' Yes, in bad WX the controllers don't try to cram as many approaches into the same time span, ask you to see that G4, or RJ 'only' 4 miles in front of you so you can 'follow him, cleared for the visual' .

Let me introduce to this little phrase, "negative contact" you are operating under IFR in VMC conditions, if a controller jams you too tight just say, "negative contact" and he is legally responsible to provide you with IFR separation. By the way, LGA hates when you do that.

Why is it that they have greater separation in IFR? Not because it's eaiser!!!!!!!

Or worse having to follow right behind a heavy with light winds and deal with the wake. The longer downwind legs in bad wx are a drag, but needed for the approach spacing. What's the problem?

You accepted the visual behind a heavy, without proper separation.

So yes, bad WX makes the approach environment easier, that's the way I see it. As for Ice, thunderstorms, rain etc. Those decisions are for the most part taken away from us in the NY area, the traffic is diverted or put in holding patterns till the WX improves. If the WX is getting exciting, you aren't going to be sleepy anyway.

"If the WX is getting exciting, you aren't going to be sleepy anyway." Are you for real? You have the ability to just tell your body, the wx is exciting, your not tired? So sleep and rest have nothing to do with the equation? Does some one at B6 want to PM this guy? Please, tell me you are just flaming me and that you really don't work for B6. I can't go on.

 

[AA717driver]

Since going Part 91 last year, I've done three or four 11 hour legs with two pilots. You are beat when you are on approach.

It doesn't matter how many time zones you cross, how automated the plane is or how comfortable the seat is, you are wiped out.

You push people to the edge enough times and mistakes will happen.TC

 

[B6Guy]

Foaming again

g4/g5 wipe your mouth you are foaming again.

Yes I can put aside fatigue for the brief, decent and approach. After being bored all the way across the country I'm ready to actually do something.

I am much more tired after trying to sleep in OAK or LGB in a hotel and flying back on a red-eye than I would be doing a WCT. Maybe I'm wrong, I'll know in a month or two as the data gathering goes on.

I know how tired I am after a JFK-ROC-JFK-FLL-JFK, all the extra Yada Yada is wearing, a WCT sure seems like it will be easier, I'll know soon.

Yes I'm for real, are You?? You foam at the mouth over something that doesn't even apply to you. I've flown decades of pt.91 with 14 and 16 hr. days. So I know what you do.

BTW I do not accept visuals into JFK, and never let them crowd me behind a heavy. But that is home base, so we all get the approach controllers trying to throw something at us. They get mad if we back off an extra mile.

You want us all to believe your spin on this proposed exemption, and many on this thread keep forgeting about the stipulatons attached to the exemption. I'm just saying that I and many at JB do see this as a good thing, and even if you don't you really don't have much to play in the discussion, you don't work by the hour, with a commute. And you are lucky to have a boss who doesn't care if you add on extra pilots.

Chill and lets see what the study and data say.