DW is mad at Jetblue

[Huggyu2]

Kind of funny, I guess: when I was in the military, we did anything we could to grab another flight. Then, when I get in the commercial business, we do anything we can to avoid flying. What happened to the passion?
As for this new proposal, I'm certainly not knowledgable enough to see how this could really impact operations across all companies, but I do know that as long as I'm still working a 12 hour day max, I'd rather be flying as much of that 12 hours as I can. For me, it's all about max number of days off per month.

 

[InclusiveScope]

Don’t worry, ten years after the rule change, ALPA will quietly tell everyone they were the ones who got the deal done anyway. Remember the 3rd crew compliment issue?

The crew compliment comparison is very similar. ALPA insisted that it wasn't safe to have only two pilots. They insisted on having a FE sit on the jumpseat of a 737. They argued this was a safety issue. Same thing here. ALPA has a hard time dealing with change.

 

[InclusiveScope]

Worthless should also take a paycut like all his fellow pilots. Correct me if I am wrong, Doesnt he make 400K+/yr & perks?
ALPO!

Yes he does. Here is the compensation package:

http://www.pilotpensiondefense.org/Documents/ALPA%20Officer%20Compensation.htm

This is more about protecting his pay than anything else.

 

[FNG320]

How about 8 hrs. flight time and a 12 hr. duty day......That sounds better..

Sounds great, but can't be done. Only the top 10% of pilots get such a schedule. Not even JB can get the average productivity up to 7-8 hours. Like I said, it sounds great, but is not do-able.

However if you could do any two legs and get anywhere between 9-11 hours per day, in a 14 hour day, that would be great. Remember any two legs. Would not have to be a Transcon. How about JFK-FLL-LGB ron LGB-FLL-JFK. That would be about 9 hours per day and 18 for the trip. With a duty day of less than 12. One more good day trip and you have 26 hours in three days. Net result would be 80-90 hours in 10-11 days, with shorter duty days than doing four legs JFK-FLL-JFK-BUF-JFK to get 8 hours in a 14 hour day.

Now if you did true transcons, JFK-SEA-JFK and get 11.5 hours in 14 hours, and then do it again you get 23 hours in 2 days. Just add a 3rd day of 5-6 hours and get 29 hours in three days. Thats 85-90 hours in 9 days. with only 14 hour duty days.

Everyone needs to remember that the hours per pilot does not change (30 in 7, 100 per month, 1000 per year). Thus the number of pilots needed by each airline remains the same. But we become more productive and get more time off, more rest per layover and more days off. If you only want the minimum number of hours, you could get your hours in 7 days and have 23 days off! Sounds like a win-win-win-win for everyone.

Win for the pilot (see above), win for the company (reduces layovers, perdiem and hotel costs) helping with cost and saves your paycheck from cuts, and win for the unions by no reduction in the number of pilots to pay dues, win for the commuters as this waiver would not affect them. I guess the only loser are the guys who like to bid rigged trips as there would be no need to rig a trip. (but again saving the companies money and your job/paycheck)

But just my opinion...

FNG

 

[dlredline]

I find it interesting that DW is opposing the entire proposal sight unseen. Why is it unseen? Because the research has just now begun, and nobody knows the results yet! For all we know, it'll come back as a bad idea, but somebody should take a look at it. We all know that there are plenty of legal-but-stupid schedules that can be built under our current, unscientifically written, 50-yr-old regs. So why not take a top down look at actual pilot performance under such conditions? Beats holding up status quo as the gold standard when we all know it's nothing of the sort.

JB hasn't proposed any changes yet. Sure the research is with an eye towards possible flight/duty time modification, but it's far from arbitrary. The current 8 hrs/unlimited legs is totally arbitrary, but it's status quo so nobody questions it. As more than one person has pointed out, even 8 hrs is murder on an eight-leg regional airline schedule, but that's not what we're talking about here. Geez, wait for some hard numbers before trashing the whole concept. I'm not especially keen on the idea, but I'm willing to keep an open mind. I'm especially interested to see the kinds of operations that are currently legal-but-stupid (can you say "day sleep") but may be outlawed based on the results of this research. There is significant possible upside here.

Very thoughful post amoungst so much hysteria. I'm not particularily in favor of the idea, but wanted to keep enough of an open mind that I volunteered to be part of the testing to see the performance results myself. I've been very impressed with the commitment of the research firms and professionals taking a look at this. There has been no bias indicated either way, and the one commitment I keep receiving from both the medical professionals conducting the research and management is that if the data doesn't support the waiver, it will not be pursued further.

I'll be happy to honestly report here my impressions when the research is complete, which won't be until sometime in late May at the earliest. After flying every type of horrendous schedule imaginable over the last 24 years, I'm curious as to the results myself.

Red

 

[FNG320]

Can I get an AMEN?!?!

AMEN!

 

[Rez O. Lewshun]

PSA got exemption 3585. Next thing you know, everybody is doing it.

 

[IB6 UB9]

So a couple of years ago I work at a 121 company with ALPA on the property and we go DEN-LAS-DEN-CUN-DEN, blocked at 12.0...and we go MSP-MEM-Punta Cana-MEM-MSP, blocked at 12.0, a somewhat scheduled service at a supplemental carrier. I certainly didn't hear any of you union boys cat-calling from an anonymous source then! Now I work at JetBlue and we are being crucified because our management wants to explore this idea on 2 leg day trips to the west coast and back.

Just curious...how many of you would be opposed to this if your company thought of it first? Better yet...how many of you would be opposed if it wasn't JetBlue who came up with the idea? What if United thought of this a couple of years ago, or NWA? It's always the same group of guys...

 

[bestpilot]

Oh snap! Here we go AGAIN. Next thing you know, those Jetblue guys will want to change the laws so they can marry their sisters! What is next? How about an age 70 rule, followed by 45 in 7? Then, think about how much money you can leave your 8 grown up kids in Yonkers when you die at age 71? Awesome.


Bye Bye--General Lee

Duuude, how bouts we start workin on fixin this whole rest thing. How bouts your minimum rest is 9 hours ALWAYS. I can't be figurin out this reduced rest, followed by compensatory stuff. Why does the man make this stuff so frreakin hard. Just be makin it simple.

100 in a month?--Yeah, I'm diggin it.

1000 in a year?--Yeah, diggin that too!

8 Max in a day?--Look, as lon as you keep the other 2, then it's all good!

If it's minimmizin my commutes, and I'm gettin more days off, how am I gonna be dyin early in Yonkers (unless I'm gettin killed by Snake or Ty Guy).

Look, my brother from the Delta mother, I commute, so I'd be lovin to fly like 40 in 5 for like 2 weeks in a row, then kick back wit the brewskis for the rest of the month. (Even better would be to fly 5 of dem 9 hour flight time gigs) Duude, that's 45 in 7, but like 9*5=45, so if I'm workin 10 days, I can bag like 90 hours of pay???? FREAKING AWESOME...Just make sure you got a cool duty day, and if we can get this rest thing fixed, it would be groovy, baby, yeah.

 

[bestpilot]

Not to mention the fact that as long as the other stuff isn't touched, i.e. 30 in 7, 100 in a month, etc. you can end up having a lot more days off if your company uses you effectively.

The thing that REALLY REALLY REALLY needs to be changed is the dam duty day. 16 hours is completely absurd.....especially when 135 is 14 hours. Make it a 12 or 13 hour duty day with 9 or 10 hours of flying allowed per day, it would FORCE management and scheduling to use their crews more effectively, and everybody gets more days off.

Duuuude, you're pretty smart, bro, but I'm even sayin dat as long as the 100 in a month is like stayin, I'm cool with even tinkerin wit the 30 in 7 too. Gimmie a good duty day, but them keep me flyin so I can get the brew $. Then leave me alone for a week or 2 so I can chill with my brewskis!

Freaking great idea, Blue Dudes, Freaking awesome!!