Duane Woerth rumor... YGTBSM!!

[doh]

Ok...that one's a Locke!

We should knock this off, Or well drive everybody away!

You won't drive me away, I'm laughing my ... off!:beer:

 

[Sig]

Ok...that one's a Locke!

I'd have a serious crisis logging the Hobbes time in my book when I soloed. I wasn't sure if I'd flown it or not, and Dalai'ed around the FBO like Assisi in a Godel afterward in a funk... fretting over the landing gear, fearing I'd Bentham. But hey, I learned later that we pilots have a ton of other things to worry about and Confucius to no end.

I gotta Goethe heck outta here; my wife wants to Schopenhauer or two and I can't waste any more time.

 

[PCL_128]

CC Air comes to mind. He refused to sign the contract after it was ratified by the membership.

The CC Air TA was negotiated in violation of the ALPA Constitution & By-Laws and Admin Manual. The company was never able to demonstrate financial need for concessions, and ALPA policy requires that before concessions can even begin to be negotiated.

 

[Falconjet]

Just read a rumor that Woerthless has accepted a position with NWA Management as a lobbyist... is this effin' true?? 73

This surprises you why?

FJ

 

[Occam's Razor]

I'd have a serious crisis logging the Hobbes time in my book when I soloed. I wasn't sure if I'd flown it or not, and Dalai'ed around the FBO like Assisi in a Godel afterward in a funk... fretting over the landing gear, fearing I'd Bentham. But hey, I learned later that we pilots have a ton of other things to worry about and Confucius to no end.

I gotta Goethe heck outta here; my wife wants to Schopenhauer or two and I can't waste any more time.

Wha-choo talkin' bout, Lewis! Emerson funny problems.

Everybody Wang Ch'ung tonight!

Occam <--couldn't leave him out!

P.S. I know John Galt. John Galt was a friend of mine. You sir, are no John Galt.

 

[Freight Dog]

The CC Air TA was negotiated in violation of the ALPA Constitution & By-Laws and Admin Manual. The company was never able to demonstrate financial need for concessions, and ALPA policy requires that before concessions can even begin to be negotiated.

Please tell me you're not serious...

Perhaps then you can explain why Duane signed Mesa's POS contract which was pretty friggin' concessionary.

 

[PCL_128]

Please tell me you're not serious...

Perhaps then you can explain why Duane signed Mesa's POS contract which was pretty friggin' concessionary.

Yep, dead serious. Mesa's contract may have been a POS, but it wasn't concessionary. Substandard? Yep, because they had to "buy" their scope language by giving up a lot of advancement in other areas to stop the Freedumb situation. Concessionary? Nope. The contract was definitely an improvement over their previous agreement. ALPA policy doesn't contain minimum standards that contracts have to achieve, but it does say that you can't engage in concessionary bargaining unless the airline has demonstrated financial need (usually through bankruptcy).

 

[Freight Dog]

Look.. you can take a sh*t. You can polish it, shine it, spray it with a nice deodorant, justify it as a natural need, you can put a nice fancy little bow around it, etc. It's still sh*t.

Mesa's contract WAS concessionary.

 

[PCL_128]

Mesa's contract WAS concessionary.

Alright, what exactly was concessionary about Mesa's contract? Describe how Mesa's contract is inferior to their previous agreement.

 

[N2264J]

Re: Duane Woerth rumor...YGTBSM!

The CC Air TA was negotiated in violation of the ALPA Constitution & By-Laws and Admin Manual. The company was never able to demonstrate financial need for concessions, and ALPA policy requires that before concessions can even begin to be negotiated.

Interesting that you should bring up ALPA policy. ALPA has a policy against alter ego airlines as well.

Is the fact that CC Air closed the doors a few months after Woerth refused
to sign this agreement (already ratified by the membership) an adequate
demonstration of a financial need?

Tell me again about the autonomy of the MEC.

 

[Freight Dog]

PCL... when a company makes money hands over fist while being able to pay out a sh*tload more, instead gives you 1% raise because you "buy" something, do you call it progress or do you call it getting concessionarily bent over?

With this rationale, I think we (ALPA) are in more trouble than I thought. You should have gone to law school. You'd make a case for assault in the first degree out of a friendly pat on the back.

 

[Lear70]

And how, exactly, were Mesa pilots supposed to stop the outflow of aircraft to Freedom? With harsh words and picketing?

If Mesa's agreement hadn't been signed, then they would have shortly been out of business just like CC Air and all the flying would simply have been transferred to Freedom.

ALPA is paying a HUGE price for ever letting Scope out of the bag, and things will never be the same. DW was always playing by the rules... TECHNICALLY... but the nasty contracts at several regionals and the concessionary contracts at the majors during the bankruptcies of the last decade have us all angry.

We can't point a finger at one person in management who is responsible, even though management, along with our Federal Government in bed with fat cat big business, is primarily to blame.

We DO, however, have a nice scapegoat to pin our anger on within the union structure. Most of us believe he should have fought harder, refused to sign agreements, and duked it out to the bitter end, but what would you say if it was YOUR major carrier that went out of business over it?

He's screwed either way... Personally, I believe we should have minimum contract levels set by ALPA and NOTHING gets signed without meeting them. If a company can't afford to pay? Too bad, they don't get to play. In every OTHER unionized business, that's how it works. Takes a lot of the worry about food-stamp wages out of the equation, but I digress.

 

[Vne]

you don't send a baseball player to a footbal game do you? Well, you don't send a pilot to play politics. You send a politician. Now it helps that our politicans are/were pilots..) he seems to lose a connection with the membership. This is common in general with the citizenry or membership etc...

Why then does ALPA use pilots as negotiators during contracts?
Hypocrisy or arrogance.........the standard airline pilot willingness to attempt anything, up to and including brain surgery, without the necessary study and reflection just because he flies jets.
yup!

 

[PCL_128]

Lear, best post you've ever made, without a doubt.

 

[Rez O. Lewshun]

Why then does ALPA use pilots as negotiators during contracts?
Hypocrisy or arrogance.........the standard airline pilot willingness to attempt anything, up to and including brain surgery, without the necessary study and reflection just because he flies jets.
yup!

Because if unions raised dues 0.000001% to pay for professional negotiators the membership is complain....

What do you think?

 

[Lear70]

Because if unions raised dues 0.000001% to pay for professional negotiators the membership is complain....

What do you think?

Hell, you can up my 2.7% to 3.0% if you ABSOLUTELY PROMISE to bring in professional negotiators, give them the list of requirements, stand back, and STFU while they do their job.

If you need to talk to them about something, take a break into a private room, then send them back.

I agree 100% about letting the professionals do what they do and yeah, you can have some of my dues money to do it.

 

[Jonny Sacko]

Is Airtran ALPA?

 

[CitationLover]

Is Airtran ALPA?

no, inhouse NPA.

 

[redwave]

PCL:

Ask any retired DAL pilot (me included) what they think of Woerth-less. Please don't shame the rest of us by calling him Capt. I'm a Captain who lost more than 50% of my pension because of non-support from ALPA. When the dues are no longer being paid they could care less about you. ALPO can KMA!! REDWAVE

 

[PCL_128]

Ask any retired DAL pilot (me included) what they think of Woerth-less.

I live in Newnan, GA and grew up in Peachtree City, so I know many, many DAL pilots. Some of them hate Duane, some of them like him. The ones that hate him are usually the ones that don't know the difference between an LEC and an MEC, don't know what ALPA-PAC is, and haven't participated in an LEC election in 10 years.

I'm a Captain who lost more than 50% of my pension because of non-support from ALPA.

Please provide your reasons for blaming ALPA, and Duane specifically, for the loss of your pension. Your pension was lost because of a corrupt bankruptcy system, immoral management, and decades of bad business decisions by Delta. ALPA merely played damage control and did the best they could for the pilots they represent.