Don't Become An Airline Pilot

[BOYCAPTAIN]

Hey......everyone lay off my girlfriend!!!!!!!! i know she has really small feet!

 

[Flightjock30]

Fellow Aviators,

I agree that $80k and flying a 757 and 767 sounds like it's great, AND BELIEVE ME IT IS and truly rewarding and I do consider myself very lucky to be in this position especially after having paid my dues as a CFI and as regional pilot for 6 years and then again my first couple of years at the major. What some of you may not know, is that if you are based in the North East of the USA, $80k is not nearly enough money to live in a decent area in a decent home, (please note I said decent, not luxury) Forget about putting money aside in a 401k, and forget about saving for a child’s education, (and I am sure most of you know how expensive that is). NOW I know we can always commute, trust me I know that this is an option but I prefer to just go home about 30 mins away, and not have to play the standby game and stress out while I just flew back from FCO and am very tired. What a chimera, to be able to live decently at your base! Commuting is very tough and hard on you. For those who continue to think its so much money check out some of the home prices, state income and real estate taxes in the NY Metropolitan Area and you will be shocked. PLEASE fellow aviators, I am not doing this for the love of money, if that were the case I would be with some Wall Street Firm earning the salaries that are required to live DECENTLY here in the tri-state area. Once again I am stressing DECENT and not requesting luxury. I also would like to once again reiterate that I love flying airplanes and don't prefer another profession, but I do think the salaries need to be addressed since many pilots are unable to afford to live in a DECENT area near his/her base so that he/she won't be tired and fall asleep while crossing the pond just because he/she has been hanging around the airport all day because he/she had to catch the 6:43 am flt from MCO because all the later flights were booked. Dear aviators please do realize that we are very underpaid and sometimes miserably treated by our leaders. Now I am not trying to be rude, but if I were to bet, most of you who I think I am acting childish and avariciously, probably are not pilots for AMR, UAL, CAL, NWA etc.
Once again, I want to stress that I am not seeking luxury, I want decency and respect, and most importantly I do not want to be in a fatigued state while flying passengers. They deserve a pilot who does not have any financial worries and not one who has been commuting all day.

Go buy yourself a decent condo in the Dutchess County area of New York and commute down to work in the city to fly out of whatever NYC Airport you are based out of. Contribute whatever savings to a 401K or Roth IRA

 

[azpilot]

If you're pulling in 80k a year and consider yourself poor, you've got some serious problems with your priorities.

Ever think of money for retirement? Money in the bank for furlough protection? What if you are married and have kids. Husband or wife stays at home to raise children vs expensive day care. All I am saying is 80k isn't that much. Some of us don't want to rely on our goverment to take care of us. We want to have money in the bank and be responsible. Me wife yes, kids no so I have chosen to have more money in the bank.

 

[A Squared]

Ever think of money for retirement? Money in the bank for furlough protection? What if you are married and have kids. Husband or wife stays at home to raise children vs expensive day care. All I am saying is 80k isn't that much. .

Okayy, once again, 85% of the folks in this country are somehow managing to scrape by on less.

Not saying more money isn't nice, I'll take more if they're handing it out. However the idea that someone is "poor" on $80,000/year is just absurd. If you think you're poor on $80,000/year, you don't have an income problem, you have a spending problem.

 

[pilotyip]

We agree?

Okayy, once again, 85% of the folks in this country are somehow managing to scrape by on less.

Not saying more money isn't nice, I'll take more if they're handing it out. However the idea that someone is "poor" on $80,000/year is just absurd. If you think you're poor on $80,000/year, you don't have an income problem, you have a spending problem.

We normally don't agree on too much, but there is a dose of reality here. I have never made more than 100K/yr and I am well set coming into retirement. After your second job lost, living below your means becames the key to success.

 

[Snapshot]

March 2008 Issue

An Airline Pilot's Real Life
pg 34

Please read it Snapshot and start to understand.

You like to read?


http://articles.moneycentral.msn.co...udget/MoneyTroubleItsYourOwnFault.aspx?page=1

 

[A Squared]

You like to read?


http://articles.moneycentral.msn.co...udget/MoneyTroubleItsYourOwnFault.aspx?page=1

Absolutely perfect.

Captures the moaning exactly

 

[TWA]

If is was impossible to live on $80000/year, the poverty level would be $80000. In the US, you are not considered to be impoverished unless you make below ~$14000/year (I think). If you are seriously having problems on your current salary, I suggest you visit http://www.daveramsey.com/ . Being able to afford a cabin class twin on your own private strip doesn't happen overnight. Not trying to flame or anything, but you have to work your way up the food chain.

 

[AirCobra]

A Squared,
I just looked at the real estate section in the NY Times yesterday. A 680 sf apartment in Manhattan is 1.3 million, a 2200 sf house in Westchester is 1.1 million. At $80,000 per year you could not afford either of these since your monthly payment would be more than your salary. Once again its not how much you make it is where you live. You would struggle to maintain a middle class lifestyle on $80,000 with a family in NYC, Hawaii, Miami, the Bay Area, San Diego, Seattle, or LA.

 

[AirCobra]

This is from CNN Money: In other words for A Squared and TWA, making $80,000 in New York is about like making $40,000 in Saint Louis:

Salary in St. Louis MO:
$80,000
Comparable salary in New York (Queens) NY:
$127,231.22

If you move from St. Loius MO to New York (Queens) NY...

Groceries will cost:35.878%moreHousing will cost:138.264%moreUtilities will cost:47.254%moreTransportation will cost:18.453%moreHealthcare will cost:15.872%more

 

[AirCobra]

Pilotyip,
Great to hear but be glad you don't live in the Bay Area, don't think you would have much in the way of retirement if you were just starting out:

Salary in Detroit MI:
$80,000
Comparable salary in San Francisco CA:
$133,068.92

If you move from Detroit MI to San Francisco CA...
Groceries will cost:41.472%moreHousing will cost:152.126%moreUtilities will cost:17.863%lessTransportation will cost:18.83%moreHealthcare will cost:26.393%more

 

[A Squared]

I just looked at the real estate section in the NY Times yesterday. A 680 sf apartment in Manhattan is 1.3 million, a 2200 sf house in Westchester is 1.1 million.

Yeah, this is a prime example of the problem here. Somehow you are taking it as an article of absolute unquestionable fact that you *must* have a 2200 sf house in Westchester to survive. It ain't true. it is entirely possible to get along on significantly less. I just took a look at the westchester Craigslist ads and there are plenty of houses there for 400K or less. You can get 1700 sf in Queens for $220K, so quit trying to peddle this absolute horse$hit that someone cannot exist without a million dollar home.


Back to the point. You may *want* more luxury than can be purchased for $80,000/year, but you don't *need* more luxury. There are plenty (as in most of the people in this counrty) living on significantly less. And yes, even in new york city there are people living on less than $80,000/year, and they are not poor.

 

[A Squared]

This is from CNN Money: In other words for A Squared and TWA, making $80,000 in New York is about like making $40,000 in Saint Louis:

And yet, people are living in saint louis on $40,000/year, and they aren't starving to death or living under a bridge.

 

[pilotyip]

Pleasanton, CA

Pilotyip,
Great to hear but be glad you don't live in the Bay Area, don't think you would have much in the way of retirement if you were just starting out:

Salary in Detroit MI:
$80,000
Comparable salary in San Francisco CA:
$133,068.92

If you move from Detroit MI to San Francisco CA...
Groceries will cost:41.472%moreHousing will cost:152.126%moreUtilities will cost:17.863%lessTransportation will cost:18.83%moreHealthcare will cost:26.393%more

I guess I should have kept that 1700 sq ft house I bought in Pleasanton back in 1975 for 42K, but I thought I had really made out when I sold it two years later for 62K

 

[BOYCAPTAIN]

I guess I should have kept that 1700 sq ft house I bought in Pleasanton back in 1975 for 42K, but I thought I had really made out when I sold it two years later for 62K

1975 ?????? i was 6! :laugh: