Don't Become An Airline Pilot

[Snapshot]

March 2008 Issue

An Airline Pilot's Real Life
pg 34

Please read it Snapshot and start to understand.

You like to read?


http://articles.moneycentral.msn.co...udget/MoneyTroubleItsYourOwnFault.aspx?page=1

 

[A Squared]

You like to read?


http://articles.moneycentral.msn.co...udget/MoneyTroubleItsYourOwnFault.aspx?page=1

Absolutely perfect.

Captures the moaning exactly

 

[TWA]

If is was impossible to live on $80000/year, the poverty level would be $80000. In the US, you are not considered to be impoverished unless you make below ~$14000/year (I think). If you are seriously having problems on your current salary, I suggest you visit http://www.daveramsey.com/ . Being able to afford a cabin class twin on your own private strip doesn't happen overnight. Not trying to flame or anything, but you have to work your way up the food chain.

 

[AirCobra]

A Squared,
I just looked at the real estate section in the NY Times yesterday. A 680 sf apartment in Manhattan is 1.3 million, a 2200 sf house in Westchester is 1.1 million. At $80,000 per year you could not afford either of these since your monthly payment would be more than your salary. Once again its not how much you make it is where you live. You would struggle to maintain a middle class lifestyle on $80,000 with a family in NYC, Hawaii, Miami, the Bay Area, San Diego, Seattle, or LA.

 

[AirCobra]

This is from CNN Money: In other words for A Squared and TWA, making $80,000 in New York is about like making $40,000 in Saint Louis:

Salary in St. Louis MO:
$80,000
Comparable salary in New York (Queens) NY:
$127,231.22

If you move from St. Loius MO to New York (Queens) NY...

Groceries will cost:35.878%moreHousing will cost:138.264%moreUtilities will cost:47.254%moreTransportation will cost:18.453%moreHealthcare will cost:15.872%more

 

[AirCobra]

Pilotyip,
Great to hear but be glad you don't live in the Bay Area, don't think you would have much in the way of retirement if you were just starting out:

Salary in Detroit MI:
$80,000
Comparable salary in San Francisco CA:
$133,068.92

If you move from Detroit MI to San Francisco CA...
Groceries will cost:41.472%moreHousing will cost:152.126%moreUtilities will cost:17.863%lessTransportation will cost:18.83%moreHealthcare will cost:26.393%more

 

[A Squared]

I just looked at the real estate section in the NY Times yesterday. A 680 sf apartment in Manhattan is 1.3 million, a 2200 sf house in Westchester is 1.1 million.

Yeah, this is a prime example of the problem here. Somehow you are taking it as an article of absolute unquestionable fact that you *must* have a 2200 sf house in Westchester to survive. It ain't true. it is entirely possible to get along on significantly less. I just took a look at the westchester Craigslist ads and there are plenty of houses there for 400K or less. You can get 1700 sf in Queens for $220K, so quit trying to peddle this absolute horse$hit that someone cannot exist without a million dollar home.


Back to the point. You may *want* more luxury than can be purchased for $80,000/year, but you don't *need* more luxury. There are plenty (as in most of the people in this counrty) living on significantly less. And yes, even in new york city there are people living on less than $80,000/year, and they are not poor.

 

[A Squared]

This is from CNN Money: In other words for A Squared and TWA, making $80,000 in New York is about like making $40,000 in Saint Louis:

And yet, people are living in saint louis on $40,000/year, and they aren't starving to death or living under a bridge.

 

[pilotyip]

Pleasanton, CA

Pilotyip,
Great to hear but be glad you don't live in the Bay Area, don't think you would have much in the way of retirement if you were just starting out:

Salary in Detroit MI:
$80,000
Comparable salary in San Francisco CA:
$133,068.92

If you move from Detroit MI to San Francisco CA...
Groceries will cost:41.472%moreHousing will cost:152.126%moreUtilities will cost:17.863%lessTransportation will cost:18.83%moreHealthcare will cost:26.393%more

I guess I should have kept that 1700 sq ft house I bought in Pleasanton back in 1975 for 42K, but I thought I had really made out when I sold it two years later for 62K

 

[BOYCAPTAIN]

I guess I should have kept that 1700 sq ft house I bought in Pleasanton back in 1975 for 42K, but I thought I had really made out when I sold it two years later for 62K

1975 ?????? i was 6! :laugh:

 

[Fly2Scuba]

What I have learned in 30 years in this business and 11 jobs is live below your means because every job is temporary.

Which is partly why wages and working conditions should be higher than present. One way is to decrease the supply of pilots by discouraging less to get into this messed up career which this thread is trying to accomplish.

 

[Amish RakeFight]

This is from CNN Money: In other words for A Squared and TWA, making $80,000 in New York is about like making $40,000 in Saint Louis:

I had my own window office at a corporate firm in NYC making 80K/yr and let me tell you, it doesn't go very far even as a single guy. I didn't lead a lavish lifestyle either. The income taxes alone will kill you, let alone the expensive housing and sundry costs. I would lose ~3K every month in taxes ALONE.

 

[pilotyip]

Must be the water

1975 ?????? i was 6! :laugh:

And I was finishing up my 10 years in the Navy, my son who is also 6 became a pilot, was your dad in Vietnam when you were born?

 

[AirCobra]

A Squared,
Sure you can buy a house in Westchester for $400,000 and I could put a family of four in 1400 sf, pay $15,000 a year in taxes and have a lousy school district, or buy a $250,000 apartment in the Bronx and spend the day avoiding gunfire. That is not middle class living by anyones definition. I am not stupid. You can buy a trailer in the worst part of Memphis for $27,000 but that does not mean I would live there.

Someone said $14,000 a year is poverty wages. Well if $40,000 a year in Saint Lous is the equivalent of $80,000 a year in New York, divide $40,000 between a family of four, that is $10,000 per person in proportional wages. Well below the poverty line. A Fedex pilot in LA has to earn $30,000 more per year to have the same standard of he or she would if they lived in Memphis.

Your continued failure to understand cost of living in different part of the country is leading me to believe you are either very young, don't have to support anyone, or live in a very low cost area.

Something else to ponder. In 1998 a senior Captain for a major airline made $230,000 adjusted for inflation. Now they make $130,000 and that is after over 20 years of service. The median price of a home has gone from $104,000 to $210,000, gas costs three times as much, cars are a third more expensive. So the cost of everything has nearly doubled, yet pilot wages have gone down by half.

If you have a family of four and live near a major metropolitan area, you would know $80,000 does not go very far, and a number of people have told you that. Am I living beyond my means because I want to give each of my kids there own bedroom or I want to be able to put something away for both my retirement and their college education? Is my nine year old Toyota Camry living in luxury?

 

[AirCobra]

Westchester
$405,000
3 Bed, 1 Bath
1,020 Sq. Ft.
0.05 Acres



Queens Village
$225,000
1 Bed, 1 Bath
750 Sq. Ft.

I checked out what ASquared said about New York house prices on realtor.com. These were the first homes I found in the price range he gave.

Anyone want to put a family of four in 750 sq ft.

 

[Fly2Scuba]

I sure hope after this week, those considering this profession really consider the economic realities.
Aloha Airlines, Champion Airlines, ATA Airlines, Skybus, and a third of Sun Country pilots are without a job. Most of the major airlines have stopped hiring, along with the regionals. Going 100 grand, even 50 grand in debt is something to seriously ponder when faced with these industry conditions.

 

[Long Time Gone]

You forgot Skyway. They also basically shut down yesterday. Last flight.

 

[N6069L]

I AM POOR AND IN DEBT DUE TO THE LOW SALARIES. I have been flying for a major for almost 3 years and was at a regional airline for 6 years prior. I HAVE NEVER MADE MORE THAN $80000 in one year.

I think I need to clarify a couple of things here. First off, by mentioning in debt I mean mortgage and nothing else. (and that is not some creative mortgage finance scheme for some thing that is unaffordable) Second, 80k is a lot of money, just not every where. Is it really this difficult to understand that some parts of the country are in fact a whole lot more expensive than others?

 

[CopilotDoug]

Ever think of money for retirement? Money in the bank for furlough protection? What if you are married and have kids. Husband or wife stays at home to raise children vs expensive day care. All I am saying is 80k isn't that much. Some of us don't want to rely on our goverment to take care of us. We want to have money in the bank and be responsible. Me wife yes, kids no so I have chosen to have more money in the bank.

Good points, AZpilot. I can sympathize with N6069L...$80k/yr won't get you far in the NE and whoever promotes commuting has most likely never done it. How far will that $80k/yr go if the company furloughs? To a starry-eyed student pilot, N6069L is living the dream. Pilots as a whole deserve better pay for the responsibility they handle. My first year out of school at a desk job and I pulled in over $50k. Pilots deserve more.

YIP, at the end of the day the tax man doesn't give two $hits whether or not you like your job, but you better have his money.

 

[pilotyip]

What does that have to do with anything?

YIP, at the end of the day the tax man doesn't give two $hits whether or not you like your job, but you better have his money.

Every time I have paid more taxes, it means I am making more money. That is a good deal. And to think I am still living my dream from 60 years ago. Being paid welll to do something I love, living close to an airport, going to the airport everyday to hang around and talk airplanes. BTW Thewre is also a place close by called the "Wedge" where I can drink cheap beer and talk airplanes