Don't Become An Airline Pilot

[Midnight Flyer]

First of all, I never intended to upset anyone here but simply state some facts of what you will be getting yourself into if you want to fly for a major US carrier. All I am trying to say is that this profession has become all the things I previously mentioned. You will see this when you fly for a major. To give you an example, I just finished having some snacks and drinks in Paris in the hotel crew room (which is really nice by the way) and there were two NWA pilots and 1 UAL pilot. We initally discussed general things, scub diving, kids, how nice Paris is, etc. But, of course shop talk is inevitable. Let's just say that I am not that far off course with my previous posts...ONCE again, we want DECENY AND RESPECT. I will admit that my inital post may have been very harsh and crude, and for this I appologize, if some of you were offended. What we need to do as pilots is to become aware that we deserve what is fair, NOT MORE and DEFINITELY NOT LESS.

I know what you're talking about. It's messed up, I agree.

Some pilots for some legacy airlines in the 80's/90's were making in the 300's.

It's painfully obvious that those days are over and more than likely, we probably won't ever see that kind of money again.

Not becoming a pilot because you'll only earn up to $80,000/yr is a poor reason to not enter into this profession.

Like someone else stated, $80,000/yr is in the top percentiles of wage-earners. I personally am not going leave aviation just because I can't earn over $80,000/yr.

 

[Snapshot]

I AM POOR AND IN DEBT DUE TO THE LOW SALARIES. I have been flying for a major for almost 3 years and was at a regional airline for 6 years prior. I HAVE NEVER MADE MORE THAN $80000 in one year.

Boo ********************ing Hoo, ******************************.

No, dickbag, if you are in poor and in debt with an $80,000 salary (on year 3!), it is not due to low salaries, it is due to your poor spending/saving/money management habits. YOU ARE THE PROBLEM, not your 80,000 paycheck! That is a lot of money to be making having only worked regional/third year major. YOU are a remarkable waste of carbon if you are that deep in debt with that kind of money. There are not words to sufficiently describe what a FOOL/whining little bitch you are. There are hundreds of pilots out there with a decent head on their shoulders that deserve your job infinitely more than you do.

 

[Snapshot]

Just got past my rage to read the further posts....

I want decency and respect

Then stop whining, Puta.

(BTW, I own a house and have a VERY Decent life in one of the top 5 cost of living areas in the country on far less than 80K)

 

[N6069L]

Snapshot

Have you ever heard of such a thing as professionalism. I know this is just a post but please...I wrote this post without using any derogatory language. I wrote this post because I was curious what the feedback would be and, I even offered my apologies to anyone who may have been offended. Now, instead of calling me names why don't you tell me, or us how you do it. Maybe a perfunctory financial plan of sorts on how to save for yourself, save for a child's college, put money in a 401k, (since pensions are gone) and what type of a loan you have for a house that costs on average 400k, and let's not forget the 10k yearly Real Estate taxes that are associated with it. I know I would and am pretty sure others would appreciated this more than childish name calling. Please let us know? Thank you.

 

[Publishers]

When I was with a company that had some let's say higher risk missions than others, people used to ask, "what do you pay these guys to do this?"/ The answer was the same as the guys who do the lesser risk missions. "Why then do they do it?" Simple, they like the challenge and the adrenalin rush. QOL can only be seen from your perspective. A Gulfstream captain friend of mine has a new pick up and a bass boat out back. His QOL bowl would run over if he were paid more. That bowl would empty quickly if he had to get into a monkey suit and actually talk to passengers.

 

[CrimsonEclipse]

Boo ********************ing Hoo, ******************************.

No, dickbag, if you are in poor and in debt with an $80,000 salary (on year 3!), it is not due to low salaries, it is due to your poor spending/saving/money management habits. YOU ARE THE PROBLEM, not your 80,000 paycheck! That is a lot of money to be making having only worked regional/third year major. YOU are a remarkable waste of carbon if you are that deep in debt with that kind of money. There are not words to sufficiently describe what a FOOL/whining little bitch you are. There are hundreds of pilots out there with a decent head on their shoulders that deserve your job infinitely more than you do.

Did you just call him a condom?:laugh:

CE

 

[BOYCAPTAIN]

Yes we all love to fly airplanes there is no questions about it, but let me tell you from a 757 FO’s perspective for a major airline. I AM POOR AND IN DEBT DUE TO THE LOW SALARIES. I have been flying for a major for almost 3 years and was at a regional airline for 6 years prior. I HAVE NEVER MADE MORE THAN $80000 in one year. And what's even worse is that working for an airline (believe me ANY AIRLINE) you are surrounded by very much negativity that you will also become very negative yourself. I've tried everything to try to stay positive but this has become impossible. If you consider this career, please do your research thoroughly and ask airline pilots about what they REALLY think of their job and do take their answers into consideration. Watch this you tube video and you will be humiliated even if you are not a pilot!!
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RayMaswju1A

All i can say is make smart decisions and research the companies u want to work for....i had a job with UAL and FDX in 95...my research led me to FDX based on the outlook of the cargo industry and the history of FDX....my friends made their decisions based on flight attendants, hats and double breasted jackets....i am 38 years old and have been at FDX for over 13 years....i am sitting in my house in longboat key regretting going back to work in about 3 weeks....i could not imagine doing anything else....be smart with your money, stay married or single and good luck...i love this career choice!

That being said the pax carriers have been screwed after 911 and it is a disgrace what has happened to their income, retirements and work rules....i can't imagine the frustration and lifestyle change these guys have been going through...i have many friends on the pax side....i hope things turn around for them and yes $80,000 sucks for operating a 757!!!

 

[Publishers]

boycaptain -- obviously you made the correct decision for you. It was one you could have made even earlier for FDX had the product dominance and the yields to support the quality operation unlike a number of other freight companies. Even today, it remains one of a kind. Still, remember that product that faxing documents that Fred Smith thought was great. If you had left another company to be part of that, you would have made a big mistake. It si OK to look back but it serves no purpose to stare.

 

[BOYCAPTAIN]

boycaptain -- obviously you made the correct decision for you. It was one you could have made even earlier for FDX had the product dominance and the yields to support the quality operation unlike a number of other freight companies. Even today, it remains one of a kind. Still, remember that product that faxing documents that Fred Smith thought was great. If you had left another company to be part of that, you would have made a big mistake. It si OK to look back but it serves no purpose to stare.

There are still guys here that were flying when the ZAPMAIL debacle occurred....not a bad decision at all...all i was saying is do research on where u want to work...if i could not get a job with FDX or UPS these days i probably would STARING at NETJETS..seems like a stable thriving career over there...

 

[pilotyip]

tell me

There are still guys here that were flying when the ZAPMAIL debacle occurred....not a bad decision at all...all i was saying is do research on where u want to work...if i could not get a job with FDX or UPS these days i probably would STARING at NETJETS..seems like a stable thriving career over there...

Tell me do you feel getting hired at FedEx at age 25, was an example of your skill and desire, or luck and timing? If you feel it is skill and desire, why was your skill or desire at age 25 superior to 10,000 other pilots looking for jobs? How many pilots will ever even have a chance to even apply at FedEx? BTw You seem to enjoy your job and that makes it a great job.

 

[BOYCAPTAIN]

Tell me do you feel getting hired at FedEx at age 25, was an example of your skill and desire, or luck and timing? If you feel it is skill and desire, why was your skill or desire at age 25 superior to 10,000 other pilots looking for jobs? How many pilots will ever even have a chance to even apply at FedEx? BTw You seem to enjoy your job and that makes it a great job.

Aviation is a combo of all of those things...some of us make our own luck...the skill and desire was there...aced the sim eval and interview...and had recommendations from people that thought i would make a good employee...i have had friends who have gotten the interview but did not pass the sim or failed the writtens...maybe skill was an issue...they had the desire and timing...at 25 FDX knew i could give them 35 years of service...jokes on them...i will be leaving much earlier ...i did the things i thought that put me in position to succeed and it worked out....yipee!...and yes i love the job and hope to stay healthy and finish up at 55...

 

[Publishers]

Having been in business now for 44 years and aviation for 30, I have hired and fired a fair number of people. To day that the process is purely objective or subjective would be misleading. As I said here before, I hired someone into a jet seat from a 402 when others were available as a result of watching how he handled working for the 402 operator particularly when the owner was out of town. Any interview was a forgone conclusion. Right place, right time. In a couple of years, he got a Bravo and Lear 60 type and now has the hours and experience to be competitive with fractionals or airlines. I am now trying to help in get to one of them with the hiring managers that I know.
I am glad you are happy at Fedex. Had I ever really wanted to work as a pilot for a job, I would have definitely headed there or one of the other hub deals as I loved the night flying and days off.
It is luck, skill, desire, but as much as anything the ability to sell ones self that makes the difference.

 

[UndauntedFlyer]

Part of the job and the industry is complaining. I can say that right up through the wide-body captain position flying for one the largest air carriers when captain's earned $300K plus and f/o’s earned $185K per year I heard nothing but complaining about the job. While even those who were so fortunate as this loved their jobs, negativity is just part of it. This is not always true but it is more the rule than the exception. It isn't always the money that pilots complain about, it's everything: The layover hotels, the crew desk, the management (a favorite target), schedules, age-60, the flight attendants, training, the union, current events,worthless pass benefits, commuting, jumpseats, politics, ex-wives, Hilary, etc. I can not explain why this is true but it is. My guess is that since you have to spend so much time with one other crew member for a multi-day trip or even a month long schedule, that negativity is a much broader subject than saying positive things. I mean how many times you can say what a nice day it is or how lucky you are. It's just much easier to bash everything until that becomes the norm and the habit of common cockpit behavior.

I hope you all have a nice day but chances are it's going to turn really bad. That's what always happens. Just try to plan something nice and it turns $hitty. You can't win. If it isn't the crew desk it's something else. Enjoy!

 

[Snapshot]

Have you ever heard of such a thing as professionalism.

Coddling adults who can't manage their finances is not my profession. I am not at work.
Apparently, you feel that coming to a board populated in large part by people who bust their asses day after day dreaming about flying a 75 to Paris (between Scuba diving trips) and crying to them that you can't survive with 3-5 times what they make is professional. Save your "I'm a victim" speech, we aren't buying it. If you don't want to be called a whiner, don't be a whiner.
Granted, about once a year, something I see here really taps into the rage center of my brain. Looks like you're it for 2008. Pilots like you are the ones that end up broke on retirement day and my sympathy for your kind has dried up in the last couple of months. I will offer two pieces of advice.
Stop living beyond your means.
Tell your husband to get a job and start pulling his own weight.

 

[N6069L]

Snapshot!!

Snapshot,

This thread and information and complaining is also for your benefit. You obviously, are not a pilot for a major air carrier, because if you were you would not be saying the things you do. You just don't make sense. Ultimately, when you do take your major pay cut to come to a major you can enjoy when, but of course only if, we actually do "take it back."

 

[N6069L]

Flying Magazine

March 2008 Issue

An Airline Pilot's Real Life
pg 34

Please read it Snapshot and start to understand.

 

[siucavflight]

AT 80K a year, you are making more then about 77% of this country. What will you be making in ten years? Most likely close to 200K a year, which will put you in the top 95% of pay for the country. You are right, get out now!!!

 

[Partridge]

Well, I for one have some sympathy with N6069L.

I appreciate it is hard to understand for those that are still working their way up to an airline job, or those private pilots that are flying for the joy and passion. But honestly... it can be disheartening to find that those things you thought you would find at the end of the line, after all the building of hours and paying your dues, arent completely what you thought they would be.

Yeah, it is a lot of money you get paid, but it is a lot less than it used to be when you were still working towards this job. Money isn't everything? Sure, I fully agree, but what about the terms and conditions that have been eroded away? Not quite the lifestyle you thought you would get at the end of this journey. Perhaps the worst is the overall morale, if everyone around is down and everybody is continuously complaining about everything, it simply doesn't make for a nice working environment.

Why not put this out as a warning to some, give them a heads up that it isn't all that anymore. Not to steer them away, just to get to adjust their expectation level. Maybe then they won't feel let down by their chosen profession.

Now, I don't expect some of you to understand this. No disrepect intended, I myself would have not understood it, even a few years ago, when I was hour building myself. But you see, expectations change as you climb the ladder.

I myself work for an airline in Europe and here the terms and conditions haven't seen the same erosion as in the US (there is time yet ), and I have to say that I genuinly enjoy virtually all aspects of my job. But that isn't to say that I cannot sympathise with someone like N6069L.

 

[N6069L]

Thank you Partridge.

Thank you for further clarifying my position. Maybe, Snapshot too will understand, unless of course his name is in a little dark booklet indicating why he states what he does. Snapshot, if you are not in the dark booklet, because only then do you still have a chance, please begin to reconsider your position and change for your and our best interest as it is ugly for the ones who are described by Jack London:

[FONT=Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]After God had finished the rattlesnake, the toad, and the vampire, He had some awful substance left with which He made a SCAB. A SCAB is a two-legged animal with a corkscrew soul, a water-logged brain, and a combination backbone made of jelly and glue. Where others have hearts, he carries a tumor of rotten principles.[/FONT]
[FONT=Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]When a SCAB comes down the street, men turn their back and angels weep in heaven, and the devil shuts the gates of hell to keep him out. No man has a right to SCAB as long as there is a pool of water deep enough to drown his body in, or a rope long enough to hang his carcass with. Judas Iscariot was a gentleman compared with a SCAB. For betraying his Master, he had character enough to hang himself. A SCAB HASN’T![/FONT]
[FONT=Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]Esau sold his birthright for a mess of pottage. Judas Iscariot sold his Savior for thirty pieces of silver. Benedict Arnold sold his country for a promise of a commission in the British Army. The modern STRIKE-breaker sells his birthright, his country, his wife, his children, and his fellow men for an unfulfilled promise from his employer, trust or corporation. [/FONT]
http://mesabapilots.alpa.org/scabs1.htm

 

[24 carat]

Wow! Where did all that suddenly come from..?!!