Difficult Airports

[minitour]

But really, try not to come off with an attitude about it.

*reading the link you just posted so reserving my comments for later*

*edit* it's later...
So I read what you posted, then I Checked out aspenairport.com which seems to be the airport's "official" site. According to the airport itself, (http://www.aspenairport.com/index.asp?topmenu=geninfo) "[SIZE=-1]The airport is closed to all traffic between 11:00 pm to 7:00 am."[/SIZE][SIZE=-1] The only thing that makes sense, is that the link you posted was prior to the LOC approach being published for general use. I think I added it to the binder in August of this year (they're downstairs and I'm too lazy to look), so is it possible that the LOC used to be available for only approved operators?

Still don't see how you can go in/out of the airport at night...legally.
[/SIZE]
-mini

 

[pilotpat]

Okay...I think I see a pattern now...you're talking about the curfew & I thought you were saying night ops were prohibited. While I understand the airport closes at 11pm, but there's a whole lot of night going on 'til then (especially in winter).
And again, as for the I-ASE approach, it is not in the published Jepps. I believe you have to order it from Jepp after you've gotten the training and sign off from the local FSDO.
http://www.flightsafety.com/news/328.htm
We do our training in Wichita's FSI on the BE-400A Collins 5000 FMS. It is still only available to approved operators, which is why every 6 months we do recurrent if we haven't shot the approach lately.

 

[avbug]

Pilotpat, perhaps you just need to update your charts. My jepps contain the localizer approach, and I don't have any local FSDO signoffs...never heard of such a thing.

The approach proceedure specifically states that it's not authorized at night. Not that it stops being authorized when the airport closes...just that it's not authorized at night. The VOR proceedure has the same limitation...these limitations were published following the Gulfstream accident, as formerly we did go in there at night.

The NACO/NOS charts contain this same limitation, and the proceedure is published, without any need for a "local signoff."

 

[501261]

Pilotpat, perhaps you just need to update your charts. My jepps contain the localizer approach, and I don't have any local FSDO signoffs...never heard of such a thing.

You're wrong (again)! There are 2 LOC approaches into ASE. There is the "published" LOC-E(relatively new), and a second unpublished Localizer approach, that is only available to qualified operators. Basically it follows the "missed approach" localizer in. It's been in operation since 2002 to "special" operators.

 

[pilotpat]

You're wrong (again)! There are 2 LOC approaches into ASE. There is the "published" LOC-E(relatively new), and a second unpublished Localizer approach, that is only available to qualified operators. Basically it follows the "missed approach" localizer in. It's been in operation since 2002 to "special" operators.

501261 - that's what I've been trying to get people to understand, but they're not getting it!! Ugg.....:smash: :uzi:


avbug - Dude, I respect your posts, but just because YOU have never heard of it, doesn't mean it doesn't exist - it f'n does!!!!!!!

 

[minitour]

Okay...I think I see a pattern now...you're talking about the curfew & I thought you were saying night ops were prohibited.

aaaaah...now I see what you mean.

So...I need to have a signoff to get this plate from Jepp or I order the plate to get the signoff? Who does the "checkride"?

Just curious.

-mini

PS What if the operator doesn't use JEPP charts?

 

[pilotpat]

Did you or did you not read the post that I gave 21:04 on 2/14 for FlightSafety?????? Guys - this is not f'n rocket science....tell you what: Why don't you call the local FSDO for Aspen & ask or even still call FlightSafety Wichita and ask for the Beechjet Program Manager (I will not give his name) about this. You will then see that there is a Special Approach for ASE that is a LOC approach and that you do need special authorization to shoot it and yes...dear God in Heaven Above, it is published by Jepp, not that we use NACO so I don't know if they've got it, but FLIGHTSAFETY GIVES THE SPECIALIZED TRAINING AND YOU NEED TO TAKE SAID SPECIAL TRAINING & FLY THE APPROACH IN ASE WITH A CHECK AIRMEN WHO WILL THEN SIGN YOU OFF TO AUTHORIZE YOU PERSONALLY TO SHOOT THE APPROACH.
Once you have accomplished either of these procedures, then please - post what you have learned on this board to show that you do not know what you're talking about.
Not to be a d*&k, but do you fly there for a living and have a jet based in the area like I do?

 

[avbug]

Pilotpat,

You need to take a graham cracker break before you pop a blood vessel or give yourself a stroke. Go back to your happy place and count to a hundred or so, take a dozen deep breaths and then a few more from a paper bag, and try again. Keep on like that, and you're going to hurt yourself.

 

[pilotpat]

Pilotpat,

You need to take a graham cracker break before you pop a blood vessel or give yourself a stroke. Go back to your happy place and count to a hundred or so, take a dozen deep breaths and then a few more from a paper bag, and try again. Keep on like that, and you're going to hurt yourself.

Well, bud - maybe if you guys caught the clue that I'm right, then okay - until then, suck it up...

 

[minitour]

Did you or did you not read the post that I gave 21:04 on 2/14 for FlightSafety?????? Guys - this is not f'n rocket science....

Did you or did you not read the part of my post that said "just curious".

Weren't you the one whining about the "attitude"? Pot...Kettle...Black.

*edit*
...and if you mean "did you click the link I posted?" The answer is no...I don't click every link posted on the boards...it's unnecessary and watching Spiderman was more important to me than a Localizer approach into Aspen that I'll most likely never end up using.

*edit x2*
...and after reading both links you posted (re-read the first one JUST to make sure I didn't misread), I still see NOTHING in these rather old (2003) "articles" saying the procedure is authorized at night.

Again, are you SURE (100%) that this "special LOC approach" isn't the one currently in publication in the Jepp manual/NOS book? It IS possible that it was successful with the "22 operators" and rolled out nationwide...

-mini

 

[pilotpat]

Mini...I am 100% sure beyond any shadow of any doubt that the specialized LOC approach that I'm speaking of is not the one currently in the Jepp/NACO books. It is has not been rolled out for nationwide circulation.
Now, about attitude - forgive me, but it's just that when I've tried to say over and over that there is an approved night LOC approach that only certain operators are approved to use, and I keep getting flak for it - well, I think anyone can see why it gets a little frustrating. Click on the links or call FlightSafety as I've suggested - especially, if you never intend on using it - you can't tell me that it doesn't exist or that I'm talking about the LOC DME. I trained for this approach the 4th time in recurrent 10/05 and will do so again 4/06...
I understand the "just curious" part and again, I'm sorry for coming off a tad strong, however - I know the approach and its a bit unnerving having people imply I'm the goof (my words).
When I get home from this trip Tuesday, I will fish out my copy, scan it and forward it to you to see. The initial intent of my original post was that it is a crazy approach - especially when you see all the crap the right seater has to accomplish in about 2 minutes (not counting an insane missed!!).

 

[minitour]

I understand the "just curious" part and again, I'm sorry for coming off a tad strong, however - I know the approach and its a bit unnerving having people imply I'm the goof (my words).

No worries on the strong part....It's an internet message board....I'm not gonna get my panties in a wad all over it, that's for sure.

I guess the thing I'm trying to figure out is...if the feds authorize the approch procedures.............why don't the NOS books have them in it? I mean...I can get a TACAN approach into ABC Military field (and some of them that I was shown looked pretty funky too....a miss to a DME ARC rather than a hold....sweet stuff!) in the book, but not the LOC approach to ASE? It's a conspiracy....it all has to do with that $50,000 toilet seat....


DME Arcs reminds me...Back to the original topic: There's an airport in Baltimore (I think...been a while since I looked) where the VOR approach is a DME Arc to the runway with several stepdowns along the arc. Don't remember if that was the "easiest" approach (was the an ILS? LOC? GPS?), but that seems like a PITA approach to use to get into an airport.


-mini

 

[Lilah]

Martin State Airport as I recall.

Lilah

 

[groundpointsix]

It is Martin State. It's a VOR approach; DME arc is the final approach course. On the missed you intercept a radial to another DME arc.

http://204.108.4.16/d-tpp/0513/05222VDTZ15.PDF

 

[pilotpat]

It is Martin State. It's a VOR approach; DME arc is the final approach course. On the missed you intercept a radial to another DME arc.

http://204.108.4.16/d-tpp/0513/05222VDTZ15.PDF

Now that sounds fun!! :nuts: And the only other approach is an NDB I'm figuring! LOL And with those Restricted Airspace blocks the thought of F16's scrambling cuz you went missed or even missed the lead-in radial makes it even more tasty!