Difficult Airports

[avbug]

The Localizer approach to ASE, which is relatively new, shows the proceedure being not authorized at night. Considering the airport is closed...how does one obtain a special dispensation to execute night approaches there? Is that a special authorization for medical or emergency crews?

Alabamaman, sure sucks to get hung with your own words, doesn't it? That's an awful lot of backpeddling you did there. Hope you didn't tire yourself out too badly. Carpel tunnel?

 

[pilotpat]

So even though the airport is closed by NOTAM there is a special LOC approach (other than the LOC DME-E...which is not authorized at night) into the airport specially for night for special crews who aparently are special enough that they can land at a closed airport?

-mini

Yes...that's correct.


But really, try not to come off with an attitude about it. There is nothing special about the crew themselves, simply that they have specific training (we get ours at FlightSafety), and the local POI rides with them on the approach to verify they do the procedure correctly. And YES - you CAN do it at night....I've done it.

 

[pilotpat]

The Localizer approach to ASE, which is relatively new, shows the proceedure being not authorized at night. Considering the airport is closed...how does one obtain a special dispensation to execute night approaches there? Is that a special authorization for medical or emergency crews?

Not for medical/emergency - and to be 100% honest with you, I'm not the chief pilot, so I don't know how you go about getting the authorization. Since I'm not based there, I don't know all of the ins and outs, but I'll look into it and let you know.

 

[Lead Sled]

So even though the airport is closed by NOTAM there is a special LOC approach (other than the LOC DME-E...which is not authorized at night) into the airport specially for night for special crews who aparently are special enough that they can land at a closed airport?

Mini...
That's the beauty of it. Think about it, no other traffic so no slot required and everyone at Base Ops has gone home so you can park where YOU want. Why didn't we think of this before? :0

'Sled

 

[pilotpat]

Well, since I'm on the road and cannot contact anyone in the office on the weekend, I tried to look up some information for you guys. Here is a link and I will cut/paste the paragraph. If you go to the link, just look down at the bottom of the page for it. As you can see it specifically states they have allowed 22 (at the time of publication) operators...by no means "special" or any other demeaning terms...just authorized, to conduct the IAP. Get over yourselves - I still have to get a slot time & parking still sucks.

http://www.nw.faa.gov/congressdoc_files/newsletter/2002/newsltr_12-02.htm

Aspen Airport Special Instrument Approach Procedure. The I-ASE special instrument approach procedure for the Runway 15 localizer(LOC)/distance measuring equipment (DME) was made available for use by 22 operators on November 22, 2002. The procedure was initiated and funded by the Aspen Airport Authority and developed by the Airspace System Analysis Corporation in cooperation with Jeppesen. This culminates a seven-month cooperative effort involving the Northwest Mountain Region Flight Standards, Airway Facilities, Air Traffic, and Airports Divisions; Aviation Systems Standards; and the flight procedures services in Oklahoma City, Oklahoma, and Washington, D.C. The special procedure provides minimums of 8,780 feet mean sea level (MSL), which are significantly lower than those associated with the other approach procedures to Runway 15. This will result in a more precise approach at a lower altitude, increasing the potential service volume to the area.

 

[minitour]

But really, try not to come off with an attitude about it.

*reading the link you just posted so reserving my comments for later*

*edit* it's later...
So I read what you posted, then I Checked out aspenairport.com which seems to be the airport's "official" site. According to the airport itself, (http://www.aspenairport.com/index.asp?topmenu=geninfo) "[SIZE=-1]The airport is closed to all traffic between 11:00 pm to 7:00 am."[/SIZE][SIZE=-1] The only thing that makes sense, is that the link you posted was prior to the LOC approach being published for general use. I think I added it to the binder in August of this year (they're downstairs and I'm too lazy to look), so is it possible that the LOC used to be available for only approved operators?

Still don't see how you can go in/out of the airport at night...legally.
[/SIZE]
-mini

 

[pilotpat]

Okay...I think I see a pattern now...you're talking about the curfew & I thought you were saying night ops were prohibited. While I understand the airport closes at 11pm, but there's a whole lot of night going on 'til then (especially in winter).
And again, as for the I-ASE approach, it is not in the published Jepps. I believe you have to order it from Jepp after you've gotten the training and sign off from the local FSDO.
http://www.flightsafety.com/news/328.htm
We do our training in Wichita's FSI on the BE-400A Collins 5000 FMS. It is still only available to approved operators, which is why every 6 months we do recurrent if we haven't shot the approach lately.

 

[avbug]

Pilotpat, perhaps you just need to update your charts. My jepps contain the localizer approach, and I don't have any local FSDO signoffs...never heard of such a thing.

The approach proceedure specifically states that it's not authorized at night. Not that it stops being authorized when the airport closes...just that it's not authorized at night. The VOR proceedure has the same limitation...these limitations were published following the Gulfstream accident, as formerly we did go in there at night.

The NACO/NOS charts contain this same limitation, and the proceedure is published, without any need for a "local signoff."

 

[501261]

Pilotpat, perhaps you just need to update your charts. My jepps contain the localizer approach, and I don't have any local FSDO signoffs...never heard of such a thing.

You're wrong (again)! There are 2 LOC approaches into ASE. There is the "published" LOC-E(relatively new), and a second unpublished Localizer approach, that is only available to qualified operators. Basically it follows the "missed approach" localizer in. It's been in operation since 2002 to "special" operators.

 

[pilotpat]

You're wrong (again)! There are 2 LOC approaches into ASE. There is the "published" LOC-E(relatively new), and a second unpublished Localizer approach, that is only available to qualified operators. Basically it follows the "missed approach" localizer in. It's been in operation since 2002 to "special" operators.

501261 - that's what I've been trying to get people to understand, but they're not getting it!! Ugg.....:smash: :uzi:


avbug - Dude, I respect your posts, but just because YOU have never heard of it, doesn't mean it doesn't exist - it f'n does!!!!!!!