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Details about the near-crash in Germany

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This must be the same chick FO that flew an A321 from FRA to HAM my second to last trip to HAM. She was HOT! I was traveling in uniform and talked to the crew before the flight and it came up that it was her leg and she was still in "training"... After a nice smooth flight and stabilized approach... BAM... she sideloaded the hell out of that thing, lost directional control and about ran us off the left side of the runway... There must have been about 20 Lufthansa commuters on that flight, mostly pilots and every single one of them was giving her a hard time as they got off the plane. She was a good sport though...
 
She's now at a certain Atlanta-based low-cost carrier. Good luck with her, guys! :rolleyes:
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They've hired more than one appalling female pilot.

So on this Lufthansa thing do I understand the crew are being called heroes? I thought I detected some of that on MSNBC. All I can say is that was a fukcing horrific x-wind technique...
 
DairyAir said:
I have to agree with Freightdogfred on this one. The approach looked fairly decent until the gust. The pilot kicked out the crab just before touchdown and everything would have been hunkydory had it not been for that huge gust.

If I had a dollar every time a captain scared the sheiss outta me I could quit this gig. Sitting holding short of 31 at LGA during a gusty day I have seen many an expressway visual approach that looked not unlike the one in the video only these aircraft were piloted by those experienced professionals at AA, USAIR, United, Delta, Airtran and others. I think this was more bad luck and poor judgement by the captain to land on that runway than anything the FO did. Had it not been for the gust the landing probably would have been pretty good considering the conditions.
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Whoever was flying didn't 'kick out' anything. Watch the video again. Whoever was flying was flying flatfooted. The rudder didn't move one inch as far as I could tell. It looked to me that whoever was flying tried to bring the nose inline with the centerline using only aileron. It wasn't a sudden huge gust, they rolled the damn a/c to the left and it went left. Up until then it was a fairly stable approach all things considered.
 
Caveman said:
Whoever was flying didn't 'kick out' anything. Watch the video again. Whoever was flying was flying flatfooted. The rudder didn't move one inch as far as I could tell. It looked to me that whoever was flying tried to bring the nose inline with the centerline using only aileron. It wasn't a sudden huge gust, they rolled the damn a/c to the left and it went left. Up until then it was a fairly stable approach all things considered.
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The video quality isnt the best, but to me it does look like some left rudder was applied as the left main was about to touch. However, right aileron was not applied. Proper x-wind technique was not used as well as no consideration for the acceleration for the up wind wing during the kick out. Hence the roll left. I will agree with you that a wind gust is not to blame. Just piss poor technique.
 
Guess those simulators are no match for flying a Cessna with a great instructor, eh?

I hope this flight is brought up front and center at the next "lower the standards to Multi-Crew license" meeting.
 
BLing said:
The video quality isnt the best, but to me it does look like some left rudder was applied as the left main was about to touch. However, right aileron was not applied. Proper x-wind technique was not used as well as no consideration for the acceleration for the up wind wing during the kick out. Hence the roll left. I will agree with you that a wind gust is not to blame. Just piss poor technique.
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Agreed. The video quality isn't the best and I wouldn't bet the farm on whether or not rudder was used. If it was though, it wasn't much.

I really don't want to comment much more on this. In fact I probably should have just kept my mouth shut in the first place (not my strong suit, but I'm getting better). It's way too easy to Monday morning quarterback. I wasn't there and I wasn't flying. I don't know if I would have done any better. I'd like to think so, but who knows. Besides, Kharma is a feisty bitch and I don't want to piss her off. I'm glad nobody was hurt.
 
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Bad technique, bad piloting.

If the news starts heralding the crew as heroes, you can forget about any lessons learned on this debacle.

Captain should be hung on letting this happen. Crab should have been taken out sooner and when the captain saw that the copilot was going to try to use aileron to correct for the crosswind, he should have taken over.
 
Bigoober said:
Bad technique, bad piloting.

If the news starts heralding the crew as heroes, you can forget about any lessons learned on this debacle.

Captain should be hung on letting this happen. Crab should have been taken out sooner and when the captain saw that the copilot was going to try to use aileron to correct for the crosswind, he should have taken over.
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I'd say that there is nearly irrefutable evidence that too little roll control rather than too much was the most obvious technical error here.
 
It sums the sidestick inputs unless someone has taken priority. Now why Maxi J was flying in 30-40 kt gusty crosswinds that day is the real question. Maybe her Maxi P was unserviceable and the Captain didn't know.
 
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There's no way to actually SEE the control surface displacement here (all will be revealed by the FDR). But we don't have to to know to know what happened. Bottomline is this approach was just royally fukced up.

She obviously *started* to apply rudder because the nose yawed left pretty quickly---more quickly than it would have if her her feet would have been on the floor and she had just steered left with the stick. But her opposite stick input was totally inadequate. The airplane started to drift, and then as it got uglier she just "gave up". The stick and rudder both likely went neutral---the neutral stick allowing the wing to lift. If she had held in right stick there is no way the wing would have lifted. When the wing lifted she gave up even more than she had already given up and let the a/c blow left like a leaf.

Those of us that have been CFIs have seen this type of thing happen with basic flight students. It happened to me when I was learning as well. The scary thing is she wasn't in private pilot training, she was piloting an Airbus with people in the back. Back to the sim for remedial....

As far as the captain's decision making...all that needs to be said has been said...
 
FWIW,I get just as irritated at seeing low time females weaseling their way to jobs because of gender.

However I blame the Captain for not taking his head out of his ass and instead of worrying he would insult her and might not get a piece of that spinner, but to take the airplane away and use his command authority.

Rant over.

P.S. I do drink beer and have been known to puff on a good cigar (depending how many Jack & Cokes I have consumed).
 
OK, so she f-ed up royally. But what i really want to know is how does she look??!!
 
Lear70 said:
The truth comes out about the near-crash in Germany - Chick F/O was flying
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Lear70 - I too agree that affirmative action is a politically correct form of discrimination and it's too bad our government allows that. However, I don’t blame women and minorities for using that discrimination to their advantage. You’d do that too if you could.

Your story would make more sense if the title was something like: "The truth comes out about the near-crash in Germany - a low time ab-initio trainee was flying..." To throw in her gender distorted the story in my mind. Just my 1/2¢
 

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