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Mr ATR,

How can I argue with a person of great experience such as yourself...being a left seater and all. Like you said, much blame must go towards the RJ plague and the baggage that comes with it. Golf clap to you for standing up for your spelling / keyboard challenged DCI brother..that would make you kinda like the Gen Lee when he stands up for the furloughed pilots. Fly safe with your 40 passengers and their gym bags. OBTW - never went thru 727 FE school.

Tom-kitty - all in fun my friend ... fly safe with Mr ATR.
 
doh said:
General,

Maybe I ain't seeing this right, but I can't see how Delta can get meaningful cash for either of us. whoever buys us will want assurances that Delta won't cancel their contract if they go to bk. They will want price high enough to make a profit on the fee for departure and they will want Delta to take over the leases on the a/c if there is a reduction in flying. I don't see how some one would be stupid enough to take a worse deal than that. Once the industry is on the upswing again I have no doubt Delta will sell us, but I just can't see it now. I hope the recalls don't get thrown back on the street though, I got friends still out and I want them back soonest!

Two reasons to sell DCI, which are to get some needed cash, and get rid of the debt. Last week I was in CVG on a "productivity sit" for a few hours and spoke with the CVG Chief pilot. He told me that selling DCI would help get rid of $8 billion of our debt. That is significant, even though I really don't know if those numbers ($8 billion) are correct or not. But, that would trim our debt load, which is worth a lot. I honestly don't know if DL will sell both or maybe one of them---but we need the cash and the debt reduction. We shall see.

Bye Bye--General Lee
 
Here it comes guys....

Delta Air Lines, Mesa Air Group Announce Strategic Partnership Originally Posted - 05-04 Source: Delta Air Lines

Mesa subsidiary Freedom Airlines to operate as Delta Connection carrier

Delta Air Lines and Mesa Air Group, Inc have entered into a strategic partnership whereby Mesa subsidiary Freedom Airlines will become a Delta Connection carrier.

The new Delta Connection agreement provides for Freedom Airlines to operate up to 30 CRJ200 aircraft on routes throughout Delta's network for a period of 12 years, with the first aircraft planned to enter Delta Connection service as early as October 2005. The agreement provides Delta with long-term cost savings and efficiencies gained through Mesa's attractive operating costs and its complementary fleet of CRJ aircraft. Delta Connection carriers already operate the world's largest fleet of CRJ aircraft, with nearly 350 in service throughout the U.S. Canada, Mexico and the Caribbean.

In addition, the economics of the agreement allow Delta to place Freedom Airlines' Bombardier CRJ200 regional jets into Delta Connection service in lieu of 30 Fairchild Dornier aircraft previously operated for Delta by Atlantic Coast Airlines (now FLYi, Inc.).

"We are pleased to add another highly cost-effective, customer-focused regional airline to our portfolio of regional carriers," said J.T. Fisher, president, Delta Connection, Inc. "This agreement offers long-term cost savings to Delta and makes it economically attractive to upgrade flying that would have been operated with 32-seat Fairchild Dornier aircraft to 50-seat Bombardier CRJs, an aircraft that is more flexible and effective within our network and existing Delta Connection carrier fleet."

Said Jonathan Ornstein, CEO, Mesa Air Group, "Mesa is delighted to join the industry-leading Delta Connection program and we look forward to providing Delta customers with safe, efficient and reliable service. Delta will be a strong partner and this agreement establishes a strategic relationship that will bring value to Mesa for many years to come."

With the addition of Mesa's Freedom Airlines subsidiary, the Delta Connection program will include Delta's wholly owned subsidiaries Atlantic Southeast Airlines and Comair, regional carriers Chautauqua, Freedom, Republic and SkyWest, and codeshare partner American Eagle (in California). As previously reported, FLYi stopped serving as a Delta Connection carrier in October 2004 in connection with a change in its corporate strategy.

Mesa Air Group, Inc., the 2005 Air Transport World Regional Airline of the Year, is an efficient, high-quality provider of regional airline service through its subsidiaries Mesa Airlines, Freedom Airlines and Air Midwest. Mesa Air Group and its subsidiaries currently operates 179 aircraft with over 1,100 daily system departures to 165 cities, 44 states, the District of Columbia, Canada and Mexico. Mesa operates regional service for several major airline partners and independently as Mesa Airlines. The company, which was founded in New Mexico in 1982, has approximately 5,000 employees.

Delta Air Lines is the world's second-largest airline in terms of passengers carried and the leading U.S. carrier across the Atlantic, offering daily flights to 490 destinations in 85 countries on Delta, Song, Delta Shuttle, the Delta Connection carriers and its worldwide partners. Delta's marketing alliances allow customers to earn and redeem frequent flier miles on more than 14,000 flights offered by SkyTeam and other partners. Delta is a founding member of SkyTeam, a global airline alliance that provides customers with extensive worldwide destinations, flights and services. Customers can check in for flights, print boarding passes and check flight status at delta.com.
 
General: Most of the analysts...(spanky, is that right? Anal ists?)haha
said that if Delta were to sell ASA/Comair, that the amount of money recieved would be like throwing a speed bump in front of a runaway train....Only a band-aid on a gushing wound!
 
Tomct said:
General: Most of the analysts...(spanky, is that right? Anal ists?)haha
said that if Delta were to sell ASA/Comair, that the amount of money recieved would be like throwing a speed bump in front of a runaway train....Only a band-aid on a gushing wound!

You forget that even though the cash amount may only be a temporary help, the transfer of debt will help a lot more. That is the key. As far as how much debt, I don't know the exact figure, but our CVG chief pilot said around $8 billion. (out of $22 billion) Not bad. That might lower the debt payments considerably. And, our turnaround plan has only yielded about $3 billion a year in savings by the end of this year, but we aim to save around $5 billion a year by the end of 2006. That is what we need to do, get to that point.


Bye Bye--General Lee
 
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ATR-DRIVR said:
hey spank-yourself,
i guess on top of being the spelling police you "must really believe that stuff that gets pumped into you at B-727 FE school on Virgina Avenue". just another "blame all of Delta's woes on the RJs", Gods gift to aviation experts......


Just an observation-the more RJ's that come online-the bigger the losses. RJ's have done nothing to help stop the bleeding, it continues to get worse the more we get. It's a fact!!
 
Fred Greed wanted RJs for "frequency" purposes for business people. He never figured that the LCCs would be flying the same routes for cheaper fares (since their planes have more seats and can spread out the costs better). Oooops, and now we have 300 plus RJs and low fares.......


Bye Bye--General Lee
 
spanky2 said:
Mr ATR,

How can I argue with a person of great experience such as yourself...being a left seater and all. Like you said, much blame must go towards the RJ plague and the baggage that comes with it. Golf clap to you for standing up for your spelling / keyboard challenged DCI brother..that would make you kinda like the Gen Lee when he stands up for the furloughed pilots. Fly safe with your 40 passengers and their gym bags. OBTW - never went thru 727 FE school.

Tom-kitty - all in fun my friend ... fly safe with Mr ATR.

I would stand up for anyone who is hammered on by dckheads like your self. Oh, I never said anything about my experience...I see YOU'RE quite experienced though. Glad you avoided the FE experience, saved them from wasting time.
 
acarpe3448 said:
Just an observation-the more RJ's that come online-the bigger the losses. RJ's have done nothing to help stop the bleeding, it continues to get worse the more we get. It's a fact!!

Fact? So Delta, along with all the legacy carriers selling tickets for cheap has nothing to to with losses? Oil prices high have nothing to do with it?
So tell me who is making the decisions regarding the RJ's? Do you think that ASA/CMR just go out and keep buying more just for grins? Am I to believe that
GG and company have NO say it what airplanes go where? Why did DELTA just sign MESA on? Why don't you call him and tell him to stop buying RJ's and buy more mainline aircraft????? WE HAVE NO SAY IN WHAT AIRPLANES DELTA PUTS WHERE. Why doesn't he buy MORE 800's or 700's or 777's???? Alot of my friends would be off furlough and flying again.
Tell me, what is the answer?????
 
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ATR-DRIVR said:
Fact? So Delta, along with all the legacy carriers selling tickets for cheap has nothing to to with losses? Oil prices high have nothing to do with it?
So tell me who is making the decisions regarding the RJ's? Do you think that ASA/CMR just go out and keep buying more just for grins? Am I to believe that
GG and company have NO say it what airplanes go where? Why did DELTA just sign MESA on? Why don't you call him and tell him to stop buying RJ's and buy more mainline aircraft????? WE HAVE NO SAY IN WHAT AIRPLANES DELTA PUTS WHERE. Why doesn't he buy MORE 800's or 700's or 777's???? Alot of my friends would be off furlough and flying again.
Tell me, what is the answer?????


As far as I can remember NOONE has ever said ASA and Comair just keep going out and buying these RJs. Just several years ago the price of oil was down below $30 a barrel-more RJs kept coming and the losses kept getting bigger and bigger. Just a couple of years ago ticket prices were higher-more RJs kept coming and the losses kept getting bigger and bigger. Its a fact. Yes I agree management appears to be brain dead by buying more and more of these things.
 
Acarpe,

You forget that oil has gotten as high as $59.00 a barrel.

You forget that at the same time more and more competition by LCCs have been sharing Delta's route system including Airtran, Southwest, and Jet Blue.

You forget that the INTERNET, at the same time as getting the horrible RJs, has made it to where people can compare the prices from point A to B of 6-10 airlines at one time.

These things have done way more damage than any RJ.

Are you too moronic and in your own little shut-off world to realize these things have a TREMENDOUS impact on Delta's bottom line? Where have you been??

Spare us your moronic ANTI-RJ B.S.

Jet
 
Have you all forgotten that Delta insists on flying out dates pieces of sh!t. 737-200, md88s,90s, even those piece of sh!t 767 are mostly ex Gulf Air. All old high MX crap. The company is living in the past and with GG there, (all 77 years of him) things are not going to improve. I heard he is thinking of buying some new DC3s (they were the latest things when he got into the industry). He has a great vision of the future, ask anyone one of your grand parents, they are bond you agree, old people are really up on modern events and what the next generation want and expect!
How can they lower their costs, their AC are all gas hogs, their AC are out of date, their customer service is on par with MESA. And they all think lowering ticket prices when fuel cost go up is a good idea.
Delta is going down.
I shall stand on the sidelines and watch.
Burb baby, BURN!!!!
Thats right GG you senile old git, you and you cronies are morons. That goes for you too General Lee, you spasmodic retard. One day you will grow up and realise the rest of the world owes you nothing. So polish up your CV, GGwill make sure you will be needing it soon.
Good luck
 
cmrflyer said:
Have you all forgotten that Delta insists on flying out dates pieces of sh!t. 737-200, md88s,90s, even those piece of sh!t 767 are mostly ex Gulf Air. All old high MX crap. The company is living in the past and with GG there, (all 77 years of him) things are not going to improve. I heard he is thinking of buying some new DC3s (they were the latest things when he got into the industry). He has a great vision of the future, ask anyone one of your grand parents, they are bond you agree, old people are really up on modern events and what the next generation want and expect!
How can they lower their costs, their AC are all gas hogs, their AC are out of date, their customer service is on par with MESA. And they all think lowering ticket prices when fuel cost go up is a good idea.
Delta is going down.
I shall stand on the sidelines and watch.
Burb baby, BURN!!!!
Thats right GG you senile old git, you and you cronies are morons. That goes for you too General Lee, you spasmodic retard. One day you will grow up and realise the rest of the world owes you nothing. So polish up your CV, GGwill make sure you will be needing it soon.
Good luck

Yeah ok man, quit smokin the chronic. Those airplanes make more money than the RJs when put head to head with a LCC 717 or 737---because we can carry more people and spread out the costs. Those 737-200s have very low lease rates because they are old. Kolshak said he got a very good deal on the remaining ones. And, the Lessor who owns the Delta Shuttle 733's came to us and asked us if we could keep them for even a better deal. We said yes for another 2 years. Your RJs are only good at point to point with NO LCC competition, and you are running out of room for that and the LCCs are growing. Soon, those 50 seaters will be parked, and you WILL be on the sidelines. And we only have a few Gulf Air 767s by the way. And, all out of date aircraft? How about those new 764's or 7 777s? How about those new 738's with huds? All old? You are wrong.

As far as GG----he actually gives a dam, and is staying for little pay or renumeration. His wife actually wants him to move back to SEA (he owns Bill Gates first large house there), but he wants to make sure DL will be ok in the long run. His cronies are actually the ones that want to be here also, because the days of the "big bonuses" are OVER---and GG said that to them. The others were fired. Sure, some of the current ones got options--but they are only good if we do well-----nice carrot.

Spasmodic moron? What? You sound ridiculous. I don't think the world owes me anything----you owe me something though--a good debate. You haven't brought anything to the table. You sound bitter and are probably scared of Mesa---they have a 12 year contract. Who knows? Stay OFF the Chronic please, ask Fins, it will take over your life....


Bye Bye--General Lee
 
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cmrflyer said:
I shall stand on the sidelines and watch.
Burn baby, BURN!!!!

Cmrflyer,
You had me laughing pretty good with that spasmodic post!

You don't work for Comair anymore??

Because if you do you're not on the sidelines. We're all in this together. If Delta burns we at Comair will burn too. I believe our fates are intertwined.

Many people think Comair will continue on its own if Delta goes under for good one day. I think Comair would eventually fail one day on its own, but maybe just maybe it could work. If Comair does try to do it alone, I think it will have to shrink severely initially, and to compete in this airline environment like Indy Air would be very tough.

Jet
 
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I think DL will get cheaper lift and will survive until better days, and then thrive again. The pension problems will be solved with legislation, and the debt problems will be partially solved by selling DCI and the RJ debt(up to $8 billion), and the rest will be paid off with lower labor costs unfortunately. If they can get $5 billion a year in savings, eventually the debt will be paid off (slowly though). Gas will be the X Factor, but some anal-cysts think oil will be in the $40 range, and that might be enough for DL to prosper. We shall see, but owning DCI will eventually be old news. And, Comair spun off will probably look like Indy Air---with tons of profitable RJs....? Go for it. (I'll be on the JFK--Buenos Aires route)



Bye Bye---General Lee
 
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No i still work here, but i am sick of seeing the back stabbing by managment. All i have to look forward these days is watching the massive mess they are creating with their old school ideas bring the company crashing down around them.


General, your AC are all out of date. Have you ever looked inside a foreign carriers cabin. Try looking in an SAA A340-600, virgin A340-600, Singapore 747s or an Emirates airbus. Even Virgin (a LCC) had TVs in the back of their economy seats in 1991! Something Song seems to think is amazing in 2005, even you in past posts boast about how "cool" these "modern" marvels are, its old news, Delta is not cutting edge, it offers no more than the lowest of the low. MESA and Delta are a perfect match for each other.
How can you tell me your AC aren't out of date, your blind ignorance about how wonderful your leadership is make you blind to the rest of industry, and its advancements.
So come on General tell me how having out of date interiors is good for bussiness, how its all part of the big plan. Maybe its "retro airline", living in the past as usual, and dont give me "we are putting leather seats in all AC and improving lighting" crap, if i want to hear that I'll listen to GG.
You can't polish a turd, and right now Delta looks like a massive steaming one on a hot summers day.
Delta celebrating our 75th
And last year in bussiness.
 
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Dosen't Ever Leave The Airport. At least they didn't on my flight last night. Left a full 767's worth of passengers stranded in FLL. I understand that aircraft break, but the way they treated the pax left a lot to be desired. I was lucky enough to get on a later flight.

Just for example, one of my fellow pax's that had been in First Class on the broken bird was looking for his seat on the new aircraft. He shows his boarding pass to the lead FA and says, "I can't find my seat, I was in First Class." The FA looks at the boarding pass and says, "Well you are not in First Class anymore, but you get to walk through First Class on your way to your seat in the back!". The pax was pissed, and I can't blame him. He walked back to his seat mumbling, "but I paid for First Class". That kind of fine customer service is why DAL is still losing money.
 
That is one of the many problems they face. I'm sure the FA is great at her job, at least that is what Delta would say, but i am sure the traveling public might have a different view.

Nice, treat the pax like crap, next time they will be going on GreyHound. At least there they expect to be treated like that.
 
Amazing another poster of shear ignorance, time to pull you head out of the sand and catch a glimps of reality. Why do you consider my post "a typo". Please explain. I can't wait to hear how you disagree and think all airlines should fly passengers in AC with interiors from 1982. So go ahead and Mr The Eighties Were Cool, explain yourself.

As I'm sure you would never fly on a foreign carrier, you should check out their interiors on www.airliners.net. See what you are missing out on. Then after that you can stick your head back in the sand.
 
cmrflyer said:
Please explain. I can't wait to hear how you disagree and think all airlines should fly passengers in AC with interiors from 1982. So go ahead and Mr The Eighties Were Cool, explain yourself.

cmrflyer, you wrote: General, your AC are all out of date.

Well that's not neccessarily so. You use Singapore Airlines as a comparison. Apples to Oranges. Singapore Airlines has a whopping fleet of 88 aircraft, mostly all longhaul, with very little LCC competition and certainly no RJs in their fleet mix.

Now you can define out of date any way you want, but for me an airliner that is less than 10 years old is not out of date, and Delta has plenty of them.


8 777s average age 5.3

21 767-400s average age 4.2

59 767ERs average age 9.7

71 737-800s average age 4.5

That's 159 aircraft with a combined average age of less than 6.5 years and not one of those aircraft was built in 1982, probably the year you were born. Of course that's not even counting Delta's large fleet of 229 world class CRJ100/200s and their world class cutting edge interiors.

Have a nice day Mr Grumpy.
 
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The RJ's are looking like jewels after only a few years of service. ASA has a remarkable depreciation programme for the CRJ- Don't clean it until it smells and looks like a steaming pile of dung. Then get MESA on board and see if they can't do it better for less. Delta sucks, and I'm outta this legacy family. Sorry to all Delta loyals who have to fly on RJs now. Delta USED to mean first class. But now it means- 'we can't compete so everyone will be flying on a dirty RJ'. Not my fault.
 
FDJ2 said:
Now you can define out of date any way you want, but for me an airliner that is less than 10 years old is not out of date, and Delta has plenty of them.

8 777s average age 5.3

21 767-400s average age 4.2

59 767ERs average age 9.7

71 737-800s average age 4.5

That's 159 aircraft with a combined average age of less than 6.5 years and not one of those aircraft was built in 1982, probably the year you were born.

DL does have a some younger planes, but you conveniently left out the other 400 planes that aren't so new. DL's average aircraft age for mainline is 14 years.....second oldest among U.S. Majors (NW takes the grand prize).
 
FDJ2 said:
cmrflyer, you wrote: General, your AC are all out of date.

Well that's not neccessarily so. You use Singapore Airlines as a comparison. Apples to Oranges. Singapore Airlines has a whopping fleet of 88 aircraft, mostly all longhaul, with very little LCC competition and certainly no RJs in their fleet mix.

Now you can define out of date any way you want, but for me an airliner that is less than 10 years old is not out of date, and Delta has plenty of them.

Obviously you've never flown on AA's 777s. They have a much nicer interior and PTV setup than DL's (not to mention 3 class seating). UA has a similar product. Just because the aircraft is new does not mean the interior is up to snuff.

Delta's about the last airline to not have lie-flat seating on trans-atlantic service, and I don't see the 763ERs having it any time soon (especially since they recently removed BizE seats from them... to make way for more revenue-providing coach passengers I'm sure).
 
General Lee said:
As far as GG----he actually gives a dam, and is staying for little pay or renumeration. His wife actually wants him to move back to SEA (he owns Bill Gates first large house there), but he wants to make sure DL will be ok in the long run. His cronies are actually the ones that want to be here also, because the days of the "big bonuses" are OVER---and GG said that to them. The others were fired. Sure, some of the current ones got options--but they are only good if we do well-----nice carrot.



Bye Bye--General Lee

General you continue to amaze me. You put your faith in GG because he doesn't have to be here? Just because he is wealthy and owns a large house does not mean he can run an airline. I have noticed you have really stepped up your ANTI-RJ rhetoric as of late. Please answer the following, who signs off on all of the additional RJ's that continue to come on-line? I sure hope it is your "selfless leader" who you put all of your faith in for the BIG turn around. If it is not GG, then who is running the place? Just when do you see him "dumping" all of the RJ's since he continues to buy more day after day??????

I really don't expect you to actually answer the question, so go on and tell me how bad RJ's are for Delta......I will be in our spacious crew lounge eating stale bagels waiting for your reply.:rolleyes:
 
Look, to address your point about GG, no airline leader except Herb has ever demonstrated any "continued" competence in this industry - basically, all non-SWA employees are in jeopardy... Cross those fingers.
 
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MedFlyer said:
DL does have a some younger planes, but you conveniently left out the other 400 planes that aren't so new.

I didn't conveniently leave them out, I was just pointing out that not all DAL planes are out of date. As you know DAL has also been busy buying 229 crowd pleasing, highly profitable and exquisitely appointed CRJ100/200s. Those aircraft are owned by DAL, at least their debt is, so you ought to factor their age into the mix too.
 
asarjfo said:
General you continue to amaze me. You put your faith in GG because he doesn't have to be here? Just because he is wealthy and owns a large house does not mean he can run an airline. I have noticed you have really stepped up your ANTI-RJ rhetoric as of late. Please answer the following, who signs off on all of the additional RJ's that continue to come on-line? I sure hope it is your "selfless leader" who you put all of your faith in for the BIG turn around. If it is not GG, then who is running the place? Just when do you see him "dumping" all of the RJ's since he continues to buy more day after day??????

I really don't expect you to actually answer the question, so go on and tell me how bad RJ's are for Delta......I will be in our spacious crew lounge eating stale bagels waiting for your reply.:rolleyes:

Amazing, no response. I am so shocked!!!!:rolleyes:
 

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