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Tom-kitty,

"Bankrupsy" ?? Warred due larn to spell ?

PS - you must really believe that stuff that gets pumped into you at CL-65 school(aka "the Academy"). Every seat is aisle or window...DUH. Read the fine print:

But the RJ often seats 40 vs 50 due to weight restrictions, and don't take any luggage bigger than a gym bag, no guarantee that will make it either. Hey, they are self-financing, too. Right.
 
If we sell ASA/Comair, we would still use them under the DL banner, so no big changes there. We need some extra cash to make sure we make it through the year, and at the same time we have done fairly well executing our transformation plan, according to Grinstein and Palumbo(the CFO) in the last confrence call. The problem for us is fuel, and everyone else except SW, Fedex, and UPS. That last quarter loss was terrible, but apparently it was expected, and a lot had to do with tearing down DFW, paying for moves, starting simplifares, and the gas. (GAS being the large expense now) We are trying to get $5 billion a year in savings, and we will be at around $3 billion a year by the end of this year. They are trying their best I believe.


Bye Bye--General Lee
 
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I just found this article on the Dalpa.net

Delta: Enough worker pay cuts

By RUSSELL GRANTHAM
The Atlanta Journal-Constitution
Published on: 04/30/05

Despite continuing financial losses and sky-high fuel prices, Delta Air Lines executives say they don't expect to go back to pilots or other employees for more pay cuts.

"That is not our plan," Chief Executive Gerald Grinstein said Friday.


BEN GRAY/AJC

Delta CEO Gerald Grinstein says the airline is now on the right track.​

Further employee sacrifices at the Atlanta-based airline would hurt morale and service, he suggested.

"We have gotten to the point where I think the morale and spirit of the people is so important," Grinstein said. He said he knows some workers were discouraged by the $1.1 billion net loss for the first quarter reported last week.

But Delta in coming months will stick with turnaround plans it's already launched, Grinstein said, while at the same time trying to offset fuel costs with more efficiency-boosting changes in schedules and airport operations.

Such moves include shortening the time aircraft spend on the ground between flights and trimming weekend flight schedules.

Grinstein and other Delta executives talked about their plans Friday in a meeting with editors of The Atlanta Journal-Constitution.

In a wide-ranging discussion, they said sustained high fuel prices — up about 50 percent in the past year — will make it impossible for any airline to succeed.

"There will be a lot of trauma in the industry" if conditions don't improve in coming months, said Chief Financial Officer Michael Palumbo.

"If we're measuring in terms of a race to the morgue, it's hard to make a call," he said. "But the fact is, we're in a much better position than we were last year."

The Delta executives said their cost-cutting campaign is "on target" but that the results are being masked by fuel costs that now consume about 30 percent of revenue.

The silver lining in the grim first-quarter report was significant progress in cutting costs other than fuel. The airline maintained its cash reserves at $1.8 billion, albeit by using the last installment of vendor financing that helped it avoid a bankruptcy filing last fall.

"Even with higher fuel, we didn't miss [our] plan by that much," said Grinstein, "which tells me we're on the right track."

Since 2001, Delta has announced about 23,000 job cuts, won deep pay concessions from pilots, cut other nonunion employees' pay, shut down its Dallas hub, launched more efficient operations at its huge Atlanta hub and ditched older, gas-guzzling aircraft.

Delta's strategy and network chief, James Whitehurst, said future cost-cutting efforts are aimed at creating a "hybrid" airline combining more efficient flight hubs with more of the point-to-point service that discount carrier Southwest Airlines uses.

While the overhaul hasn't stopped Delta's bleeding, management is betting it may be enough to allow the airline to survive until a rival goes out of business first, or until dropping fuel prices or rising fares give the industry some relief.

Palumbo said Delta has cut $2 billion from its operating budget since last year and expects to push annual savings to $3 billion by year-end.

As a result, Delta should continue to operate outside of bankruptcy with lower cash reserves than it would have needed in the past, the executives said.

"We'll bleed more slowly than we ever did before, and disproportionately more slowly than the rest of the industry," Palumbo said.

Some industry analysts remain skeptical and think Delta will be back at the brink of a Chapter 11 filing later this year.

Delta is burning through $4 million a day — more than any other carrier — and is "the most likely candidate for a bankruptcy filing this year," said Calyon Securities analyst Ray Neidl in a report this week.

The airline is lobbying Congress for assistance that would spread required pension reserve payments out over 25 years instead of five. That would save Delta and other big airlines hundreds of millions of dollars in coming years.

Sen. Johnny Isakson (R-Ga.) introduced a bill to that effect in the Senate and Republican Rep. Tom Price of Roswell is expected to put in a House version next week.

The legislative effort has backing from Delta and Northwest, their pilots unions and other employee groups, but may face an uphill battle because White House pension proposals don't include relief for airlines.

Grinstein said the government assistance shouldn't be seen as an industry bailout because it would help airlines stay solvent enough to pay their own pensions rather than terminating them and saddling the government-backed Pension Benefit Guaranty Corp. with the liabilities.

"I actually think of it as a bailout of the government," the Delta CEO said.

High fuel costs have prompted airlines to nudge fares upward — something the hyper-competitive industry rarely does successfully.

The latest bump came late Thursday when American Airlines added $10 roundtrip to U.S. and Canadian flights. Delta and Northwest matched the move.

Grinstein, a longtime Delta board member who took the controls in a late 2003 management shake-up, said he expects to stay in the job this year and part or all of next year.

He said he expects to name a successor from within Delta's ranks.



Interesting indeed! We'll see if they are right. I doubt it though. I think there will be another "asking" for pay cuts in late Summer. I guess we can all hope not.


Bye Bye--General Lee
 
Spanky......Sorry, hit the wrong letter! Must be great being as cool as you? NOT! And by the way, there is no way in hell I would go to that academy! Thanks for playing!
 
General, I believe that the only way selling us off and keeping any of the proceeds that continue to come in would be to spin us off into an IPO? We have all been saying this for years, but no one wants to listen. I guess when it gets right down to it, may GG will have what it takes to make it happen. That would be fine with me, get rid of all our mgmnt at ASA and make it happen!
 
General,

Maybe I ain't seeing this right, but I can't see how Delta can get meaningful cash for either of us. whoever buys us will want assurances that Delta won't cancel their contract if they go to bk. They will want price high enough to make a profit on the fee for departure and they will want Delta to take over the leases on the a/c if there is a reduction in flying. I don't see how some one would be stupid enough to take a worse deal than that. Once the industry is on the upswing again I have no doubt Delta will sell us, but I just can't see it now. I hope the recalls don't get thrown back on the street though, I got friends still out and I want them back soonest!
 
Three observations people:

1: Bankruptcy will change everything. While most of these theories are workable in a company recovering, all bets are off in a bk. process. I think there is no way Delta can avoid a bankruptcy filing short of a financial miracle this year i.e. oil dropping. No company can sustain cash burns and losses like this. The "paper" losses as well. Eventually they do affect credit ratings which eventually does crimp the bottom line.

2: The "No more paycuts" is a ploy only to keep the troops from revolting. If the numbers don't improve, or Delta files,they will come back for more and it will be with a vengenace. Either through negotiations or an 1113 process it is coming. To think otherwise is not smart for your own financial planning. Ask any UAL or U pilot if they would of thought in the beggining of their saga if their contracts would of been gutted to the extent they are today.

Pilots are like a deer in the headlights. They just stop and stare and never believe the management truck isn't actually going to run them over. The problem now is ALPA (at the local and national level) has allowed the incompetent theives running these airlines to not only run over us, but to back the truck over the corpse again and again.

3: Selling the DCI carriers is akin to burning the furniture to heat the house. While on the surface it seems like a good short term move harvest cash for mother Delta to stave of liquidity problems, in the long run all it is doing is buying time. Delta must address it's debt problem. I read an analysis that showed even if Delta used all the cash from the sale, it would only pay down about 9% of their total debt.

If you don't think this is plausible, rethink and study how every airline bankruptcy has played out in the last 20 years.
 
spanky2 said:
Tom-kitty,

"Bankrupsy" ?? Warred due larn to spell ?

PS - you must really believe that stuff that gets pumped into you at CL-65 school(aka "the Academy"). Every seat is aisle or window...DUH. Read the fine print:

But the RJ often seats 40 vs 50 due to weight restrictions, and don't take any luggage bigger than a gym bag, no guarantee that will make it either. Hey, they are self-financing, too. Right.

hey spank-yourself,
i guess on top of being the spelling police you "must really believe that stuff that gets pumped into you at B-727 FE school on Virgina Avenue". just another "blame all of Delta's woes on the RJs", Gods gift to aviation experts......
 
If GG needs to sell ASA/CMR to raise a few bucks, so be it. Honestly I can't think we are worth that much in this depressed market (especially with ASA's open labor contract).

All the talk of SKYW buying us seems a farce. Virgin Atl., is interesting, but they seem to be slow to get going. I can't really think of anyone else who would want us? Mesa? JO would have his hands full with the ASA/CMR pilot groups.

I think DAL is stuck with us for at least the short-term.
 
FDJ2 said:
Mike Stowell, VP of engineering, says the winglets themselves would add just over 10ft (3.3m) to the overall wingspan, stand 11ft (3.4m) tall and add approximately 2,300lb to the operating empty weight, including the winglets themselves, any necessary ballast and structural modifications to the wing. The modification is predicted to save around six per cent in block fuel at the aircraft’s 6,000 mile range, or about 4.5 per cent at 3,000 miles. The higher figure would translate into annual savings of up to 400,000 gallons of fuel.

http://www.aviation-industry.com/atem/newpages/current_atempdfs/AT75b767ext.pdf






out of curiosity, why don't they just add the same wingtips as the 767-400?
 
Mr ATR,

How can I argue with a person of great experience such as yourself...being a left seater and all. Like you said, much blame must go towards the RJ plague and the baggage that comes with it. Golf clap to you for standing up for your spelling / keyboard challenged DCI brother..that would make you kinda like the Gen Lee when he stands up for the furloughed pilots. Fly safe with your 40 passengers and their gym bags. OBTW - never went thru 727 FE school.

Tom-kitty - all in fun my friend ... fly safe with Mr ATR.
 
doh said:
General,

Maybe I ain't seeing this right, but I can't see how Delta can get meaningful cash for either of us. whoever buys us will want assurances that Delta won't cancel their contract if they go to bk. They will want price high enough to make a profit on the fee for departure and they will want Delta to take over the leases on the a/c if there is a reduction in flying. I don't see how some one would be stupid enough to take a worse deal than that. Once the industry is on the upswing again I have no doubt Delta will sell us, but I just can't see it now. I hope the recalls don't get thrown back on the street though, I got friends still out and I want them back soonest!

Two reasons to sell DCI, which are to get some needed cash, and get rid of the debt. Last week I was in CVG on a "productivity sit" for a few hours and spoke with the CVG Chief pilot. He told me that selling DCI would help get rid of $8 billion of our debt. That is significant, even though I really don't know if those numbers ($8 billion) are correct or not. But, that would trim our debt load, which is worth a lot. I honestly don't know if DL will sell both or maybe one of them---but we need the cash and the debt reduction. We shall see.

Bye Bye--General Lee
 
Here it comes guys....

Delta Air Lines, Mesa Air Group Announce Strategic Partnership Originally Posted - 05-04 Source: Delta Air Lines

Mesa subsidiary Freedom Airlines to operate as Delta Connection carrier

Delta Air Lines and Mesa Air Group, Inc have entered into a strategic partnership whereby Mesa subsidiary Freedom Airlines will become a Delta Connection carrier.

The new Delta Connection agreement provides for Freedom Airlines to operate up to 30 CRJ200 aircraft on routes throughout Delta's network for a period of 12 years, with the first aircraft planned to enter Delta Connection service as early as October 2005. The agreement provides Delta with long-term cost savings and efficiencies gained through Mesa's attractive operating costs and its complementary fleet of CRJ aircraft. Delta Connection carriers already operate the world's largest fleet of CRJ aircraft, with nearly 350 in service throughout the U.S. Canada, Mexico and the Caribbean.

In addition, the economics of the agreement allow Delta to place Freedom Airlines' Bombardier CRJ200 regional jets into Delta Connection service in lieu of 30 Fairchild Dornier aircraft previously operated for Delta by Atlantic Coast Airlines (now FLYi, Inc.).

"We are pleased to add another highly cost-effective, customer-focused regional airline to our portfolio of regional carriers," said J.T. Fisher, president, Delta Connection, Inc. "This agreement offers long-term cost savings to Delta and makes it economically attractive to upgrade flying that would have been operated with 32-seat Fairchild Dornier aircraft to 50-seat Bombardier CRJs, an aircraft that is more flexible and effective within our network and existing Delta Connection carrier fleet."

Said Jonathan Ornstein, CEO, Mesa Air Group, "Mesa is delighted to join the industry-leading Delta Connection program and we look forward to providing Delta customers with safe, efficient and reliable service. Delta will be a strong partner and this agreement establishes a strategic relationship that will bring value to Mesa for many years to come."

With the addition of Mesa's Freedom Airlines subsidiary, the Delta Connection program will include Delta's wholly owned subsidiaries Atlantic Southeast Airlines and Comair, regional carriers Chautauqua, Freedom, Republic and SkyWest, and codeshare partner American Eagle (in California). As previously reported, FLYi stopped serving as a Delta Connection carrier in October 2004 in connection with a change in its corporate strategy.

Mesa Air Group, Inc., the 2005 Air Transport World Regional Airline of the Year, is an efficient, high-quality provider of regional airline service through its subsidiaries Mesa Airlines, Freedom Airlines and Air Midwest. Mesa Air Group and its subsidiaries currently operates 179 aircraft with over 1,100 daily system departures to 165 cities, 44 states, the District of Columbia, Canada and Mexico. Mesa operates regional service for several major airline partners and independently as Mesa Airlines. The company, which was founded in New Mexico in 1982, has approximately 5,000 employees.

Delta Air Lines is the world's second-largest airline in terms of passengers carried and the leading U.S. carrier across the Atlantic, offering daily flights to 490 destinations in 85 countries on Delta, Song, Delta Shuttle, the Delta Connection carriers and its worldwide partners. Delta's marketing alliances allow customers to earn and redeem frequent flier miles on more than 14,000 flights offered by SkyTeam and other partners. Delta is a founding member of SkyTeam, a global airline alliance that provides customers with extensive worldwide destinations, flights and services. Customers can check in for flights, print boarding passes and check flight status at delta.com.
 
General: Most of the analysts...(spanky, is that right? Anal ists?)haha
said that if Delta were to sell ASA/Comair, that the amount of money recieved would be like throwing a speed bump in front of a runaway train....Only a band-aid on a gushing wound!
 
Tomct said:
General: Most of the analysts...(spanky, is that right? Anal ists?)haha
said that if Delta were to sell ASA/Comair, that the amount of money recieved would be like throwing a speed bump in front of a runaway train....Only a band-aid on a gushing wound!

You forget that even though the cash amount may only be a temporary help, the transfer of debt will help a lot more. That is the key. As far as how much debt, I don't know the exact figure, but our CVG chief pilot said around $8 billion. (out of $22 billion) Not bad. That might lower the debt payments considerably. And, our turnaround plan has only yielded about $3 billion a year in savings by the end of this year, but we aim to save around $5 billion a year by the end of 2006. That is what we need to do, get to that point.


Bye Bye--General Lee
 
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ATR-DRIVR said:
hey spank-yourself,
i guess on top of being the spelling police you "must really believe that stuff that gets pumped into you at B-727 FE school on Virgina Avenue". just another "blame all of Delta's woes on the RJs", Gods gift to aviation experts......


Just an observation-the more RJ's that come online-the bigger the losses. RJ's have done nothing to help stop the bleeding, it continues to get worse the more we get. It's a fact!!
 
Fred Greed wanted RJs for "frequency" purposes for business people. He never figured that the LCCs would be flying the same routes for cheaper fares (since their planes have more seats and can spread out the costs better). Oooops, and now we have 300 plus RJs and low fares.......


Bye Bye--General Lee
 
spanky2 said:
Mr ATR,

How can I argue with a person of great experience such as yourself...being a left seater and all. Like you said, much blame must go towards the RJ plague and the baggage that comes with it. Golf clap to you for standing up for your spelling / keyboard challenged DCI brother..that would make you kinda like the Gen Lee when he stands up for the furloughed pilots. Fly safe with your 40 passengers and their gym bags. OBTW - never went thru 727 FE school.

Tom-kitty - all in fun my friend ... fly safe with Mr ATR.

I would stand up for anyone who is hammered on by dckheads like your self. Oh, I never said anything about my experience...I see YOU'RE quite experienced though. Glad you avoided the FE experience, saved them from wasting time.
 
acarpe3448 said:
Just an observation-the more RJ's that come online-the bigger the losses. RJ's have done nothing to help stop the bleeding, it continues to get worse the more we get. It's a fact!!

Fact? So Delta, along with all the legacy carriers selling tickets for cheap has nothing to to with losses? Oil prices high have nothing to do with it?
So tell me who is making the decisions regarding the RJ's? Do you think that ASA/CMR just go out and keep buying more just for grins? Am I to believe that
GG and company have NO say it what airplanes go where? Why did DELTA just sign MESA on? Why don't you call him and tell him to stop buying RJ's and buy more mainline aircraft????? WE HAVE NO SAY IN WHAT AIRPLANES DELTA PUTS WHERE. Why doesn't he buy MORE 800's or 700's or 777's???? Alot of my friends would be off furlough and flying again.
Tell me, what is the answer?????
 
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ATR-DRIVR said:
Fact? So Delta, along with all the legacy carriers selling tickets for cheap has nothing to to with losses? Oil prices high have nothing to do with it?
So tell me who is making the decisions regarding the RJ's? Do you think that ASA/CMR just go out and keep buying more just for grins? Am I to believe that
GG and company have NO say it what airplanes go where? Why did DELTA just sign MESA on? Why don't you call him and tell him to stop buying RJ's and buy more mainline aircraft????? WE HAVE NO SAY IN WHAT AIRPLANES DELTA PUTS WHERE. Why doesn't he buy MORE 800's or 700's or 777's???? Alot of my friends would be off furlough and flying again.
Tell me, what is the answer?????


As far as I can remember NOONE has ever said ASA and Comair just keep going out and buying these RJs. Just several years ago the price of oil was down below $30 a barrel-more RJs kept coming and the losses kept getting bigger and bigger. Just a couple of years ago ticket prices were higher-more RJs kept coming and the losses kept getting bigger and bigger. Its a fact. Yes I agree management appears to be brain dead by buying more and more of these things.
 

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