Delta to put ALL regional flying up for rebid

[fieldinsight]

So what's going on with the Delta flying rebid? Anybody know anything?

Nope, I asked the same thing earlier in the thread, but most everyone here is busy playing "mine is bigger", or slamming fellow pilots. This thread was nothing but flamebait, and it worked well!

Looked online at the CVG paper just now, nothing to report. You know if CMR had been told to rebid, it would be all over CVG media....

 

[SKYW Pilot]

The folks that are lowering the bars is management! Now we all know that we probably took the job from the first place that hired us...so stop pointing fingers! My paycheck is bigger than yours is so very funny...

Thank you! No union is going to save you guys from subpar wages. If ASA strikes, then Delta will give the flying to Skywest. We'll refuse to fly the struck work. Delta will keep searching til there's somebody out there who will fly it. I'm sorry, but it's just the way of the world. Are we going to fight for better work rules and wages. Sure! We want to bring that bar back up! We'll do everything we can on our end to make that happen. If it means voting in ALPA here soon, then so be it! But I'm just not completely convinced that voting in a union is going to be the magical fix all you guys claim. If anything, I'll take a hit on pay from dues. I'm finished taking the flame bait.

 

[SkyNation]

I agree. It is not my intention to flaunt my pay, engage in pissing matches, etc. I hope for the best for all of us, but I'm realistic about things.

I'm happy where I'm at. I hope ya'll are as well.

 

[sweptback]

Those who wanted proof: http://biz.yahoo.com/pz/060822/104142.html

I imagine this will closely mirror the United/Bain scenario. Seems to be the standard Ch. 11 playbook in use.

 

[outtahere]

So, who is willing to do it for less? Not Me! This is a job, and like all jobs if you did'nt make the money needed to support your family you would find another one. Not one dime less, not less than 10%. Do you hear that ASA.

 

[~~~^~~~]

Good post Sweptback

This definately is a squeeze play on Comair. I hope Comair gets "their" flying.

Rumors are all over the place - 20 more 50 seat GECAS airplanes coming to ASA, more flying out of CVG. Who knows. The only thing for sure is that we don't have the hiring or IP's to staff those airplanes.

More rumors are that ASA Management is putting an offer to the NMB, which should get the clock ticking again. In reply the ASA MEC might be asking to be released.

Based on the only concrete facts that we know, I think Comair is getting squeezed and the information that ASA is going to CVG is a bluff. Classic whipsaw.

.... maybe SkyNation already has his Captain bid in for a CVG base....

 

[spitfire1500]

Good post Sweptback

This definately is a squeeze play on Comair. I hope Comair gets "their" flying.

Rumors are all over the place - 20 more 50 seat GECAS airplanes coming to ASA, more flying out of CVG. Who knows. The only thing for sure is that we don't have the hiring or IP's to staff those airplanes.

More rumors are that ASA Management is putting an offer to the NMB, which should get the clock ticking again. In reply the ASA MEC might be asking to be released.

Based on the only concrete facts that we know, I think Comair is getting squeezed and the information that ASA is going to CVG is a bluff. Classic whipsaw.

.... maybe SkyNation already has his Captain bid in for a CVG base....

I fly at Mesa and I back you Comair guys 110% our contract is up next year and hopefully we can do the job you guys did last contract.. Ive already been stashing my money and starting a home business in preparation.

 

[DASHDRIVER]

Boy, everyone at AWAC can tell you this process is not fun. I hope that everyone learns from our experiance. It does not matter how much we make no matter what the Managers scare you with. The largest savings come from the leasors. Stay strong and good luck.

DD

 

[BID]

I am getting kinda of tired of SkyWest pilots defending their current wages. The bottom line is SkyWest will NEVER have an industry leading contract. A union carrier on the other hand will. then SkyWest pilots will continue to say, "look what we have, almost as good as your contract and we are non-union"

Don't worry though, the union drive has just enough energy now that SGU is scared and hey will give you enough to divide the pilot group and keep a union off the property. That in turn will be good for you and the industry as a whole?

Bid

 

[SkyNation]

Fins

you really have it in for me (and skywest pilots) don't you?

as for me, I want nothing to do with CVG, LGA, FLL or wherever these planes will be. Anything east of, say, DEN, is too far east for me.

I also doubt SkyWest will be awarded any of this flying, but who knows? I wouldn't be surprised to ASA with a CVG base, however. Don't you guys already have a large presence there in the A concourse?

 

[sweptback]

I also doubt SkyWest will be awarded any of this flying, but who knows? I wouldn't be surprised to ASA with a CVG base, however. Don't you guys already have a large presence there in the A concourse?

ASA did once DFW closed and we had nowhere to put airplanes. That lasted about a year until CHQ came in and replaced most of the flying out of there with the spare airplanes they had from the closure of their FLL base. CVG A concourse seems to be the parking lot for airplanes that Delta doesn't know what to do with.

ASA now has very little flying out of CVG (about the same as what CMR does out of ATL), and we park at the C concourse.

 

[ArcticFlier]

If ASA strikes, then Delta will give the flying to Skywest. We'll refuse to fly the struck work. Delta will keep searching til there's somebody out there who will fly it. I'm sorry, but it's just the way of the world.

Really? You mean that you hope SGU will refuse the flying to [sarcasm]protect it's pilots.[/sarcasm]

A little history for ya: We had a captain fired for refusing to fly a plane previously owned/flown by Comair. There was some legit concerns about flying a plane that we got from Comair, in some part due to the fact/perception that they had gone on strike. Sure, he was hired back.........eventually. Shining example of how SGU has our back. The knee jerk reaction was to fire the pilot, not discern why he did what he did.

Do you really think we can just refuse to fly anything previously flown by ASA (if they go on strike) in the current environment we find ourselves in? If the ASA pilots define "their" flying as theirs, and we picked it up............guess what? We're flying struck work, and at the end of the day, if SGU wants us to fly it, you'd better have a second job to fall back on. I don't want to go there.



AF

 

[MECH]

I would love to see the pilots of ASA negotiate a scope clause that has all flying done by Skywest Inc. to be flown by pilots on the ASA senority list.

The ASA pilots then could staple all the Skywest pilots on to the bottom of their list.

I would love to read this board after that, because this is the only place that the Skywest pilots could voice their opinions, on their future!

 

[Erlanger]

All the hiring that Skywest is doing and plans on doing is simply not for attrition and additional flying they will be awarded but to cover the ASA flying incase they strike. Skywest has already figured that it just needs to cover 1/3 of ASA's flying to keep Delta happy for the time being and to not take, too bad a financial loss. That number came from management, by the way. See, they're already talking and preparing for this eventuality. Delta has already summitted to Skywest the routes that are most important to them. It will be the junior guys that will have to fly the ASA routes. They can hem and haw, beotch and talk tough but in the end, they'll fly those routes. It wouldn't be considered struck work anyway. See, Skywest has got it figured out. It sucks to be junior.

 

[ArcticFlier]

It wouldn't be considered struck work anyway.

Who defines struck work?

 

[Sinca3]

Who defines struck work?

The Union's...

 

[sweptback]

All the hiring that Skywest is doing and plans on doing is simply not for attrition and additional flying they will be awarded but to cover the ASA flying incase they strike. Skywest has already figured that it just needs to cover 1/3 of ASA's flying to keep Delta happy for the time being and to not take, too bad a financial loss. That number came from management, by the way. See, they're already talking and preparing for this eventuality. Delta has already summitted to Skywest the routes that are most important to them. It will be the junior guys that will have to fly the ASA routes. They can hem and haw, beotch and talk tough but in the end, they'll fly those routes. It wouldn't be considered struck work anyway. See, Skywest has got it figured out. It sucks to be junior.

You'd probably be first in line to fly it, too.

 

[ReportCanoa]

Too bad we can't send a Hoffa goon to Erlanger's house.

 

[ArcticFlier]

The Union's...

Exactly. Not Jerry, Brad, Ron or anyone else in SGU. But that won't stop them from telling us to fly it if Mama wants it flown.

Believe it. Do you pilots at SKYW want to do that? Not me. Time to do something about it.



AF

 

[Erlanger]

sweptback says...

You'd probably be first in line to fly it, too.

ReportCanoa says...

Too bad we can't send a Hoffa goon to Erlanger's house.

1st. of all; I'm very senior, so I'll never have to fly it. 2nd. I'm just stating the facts. I'm not saying it is a good thing or that I like it. I'm not trying to rub it in your faces and I'm not gloating about this mess either. Sorry if the truth hurts.

 

[greg52083]

DELTA can KISS MY ASS. They should rebid on themselves. They are the worst airline EVER! The whole JFK DASH operation was the worst idea ever. They are NOT going to win B6 customers with DASH-8-100s anyway. B6's E-190s are so nice. Delta's problem isn't Mesa, Ch or anyone other regional. Their problem is they cant plan for ******************** and will do anything to try and save a buck at their backwards ass company. Regardless of what they do, they arent going to be around in 3 years anyway, just like Song!

 

[Stifler's Mom]

I became a pilot for the same four reasons that everybody does: chicks, money, power, and chicks. Unfortunately, I'm not seeing any of these materialize.

 

[Victor Meldrew]

ASA and SkyWest have a 15-year contract reaffirmed by the bankruptcy court. So if this rumor is in fact true, it would be for every regional other than those two.

Doesn't mean $hit. Remember when UAL went C.11 and both ACA and AWAC had just signed PRIOR to C.11 new 10+ year contracts? Well the BK judge threw all contracts out and UAL did an RFP. Now where are ACA and AWAC??

Once in BK any contracts you may have might as well be used to wipe ones @ss with!

 

[wmuflyguy]

Doesn't mean $hit. Remember when UAL went C.11 and both ACA and AWAC had just signed PRIOR to C.11 new 10+ year contracts? Well the BK judge threw all contracts out and UAL did an RFP. Now where are ACA and AWAC??

Once in BK any contracts you may have might as well be used to wipe ones @ss with!

I think it was affirmed in Bk, as much as I wish you were right.

 

[gcaflyer]

The contracts were affirmed by the BK court. Once they were DL collected $125,000,000 hold back of the total sale price. Not to say that DL couldn't go back to the court and try to throw it out based on new and current conditions, i.e. "Your Honor DL has approached MESA, CHQ, Freedom, etc about paying us to fly our routes, and they have agreed (I think we are at the bottom now), We think SKW/ASA are makin' to much money and we think they should pay us as well. This approach will certainly help improve our bottom line as it increases revenue and reduces cost at the same time."

 

[goahead]

All Skywest pilot, Go ahead and fly struck work and see where it gets you in life. It's just as bad as crossing the picket line and becoming a "scab".

 

[Soverytired]

All Skywest pilot, Go ahead and fly struck work and see where it gets you in life. It's just as bad as crossing the picket line and becoming a "scab".

Uh, I'm not Skywest, but I'm not aware of any airline that is currently on strike.

Not really fair to hate the Skywest pilot group just because their management is WAY better than every other regional, not to mention the fact that they seem to get much better deals w/o having a completely ineffectual union stealing $2k out of their pockets every year.

 

[crjdxr]

http://news.enquirer.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20060823/BIZ01/608230327

A selected section from an article in today's Cincinnati Equirer....

A SHIFT IN FOCUS
The union leaders reacted after Delta said it would award 27 70-seat jets, as well as an undetermined number of 50-seaters flown by Comair, to the most competitive bidder.
Officials said the move was the next logical step in the Atlanta-based carrier's Chapter 11 restructuring, which until now has focused on its mainline operations. They declined to say how much they thought the rebidding would save the company.
Joe Kolshak, Delta's executive vice president of operations, said the company would choose the winning bidders by the end of the year. He said any reassigned aircraft would be switched over to a new operator over a transition period of less than 12 months.
Contracts would be awarded to the best, not the lowest, bidder, Kolshak said.

 

[Poppa Hodax]

The Worst Idea Ever

DELTA can KISS MY ASS. They should rebid on themselves. They are the worst airline EVER! The whole JFK DASH operation was the worst idea ever. [snip]

The worst idea ever is to get involved in a land war in Asia. The second, only slightly less well known, is this: "Never go in against a Sicilian, when death is on the line."

 

[brew3departure]

Problem...

Here's the big problem that I see. The guy that said that SKYW will refuse to fly struck work...yes, most of you will (hopefully) but will everyone? No.

See, it shouldn't even be an option; I love how any time ANYONE mentions the 50/70/90 seat rate, the first thing I hear is "Look at my W2! Look at my W2! It's bigger than yours!" "It doesn't matter because my 50 seat rate is better than your 70/90 seat rate." Where does the lunacy end? What if management came to you and said "Umm...yeah. We're extending the 50 seat rate to 137 seats, and 737's are coming on the property! Isn't that great?" That, or the "Well, the same rate was only supposed to be for 18 months." How long ago was that 18 months? And you're telling me no one thought that negotiating those rates to 99 seats GUARANTEED that you WOULDN'T get anything larger than 70 seats?

If you can forgive all of this -- the blended rate, management's empty promises...the one thing that can't be forgiven is the "Will not fly struck work" clause that exists in 99% of the union airline contracts out there. Delta isn't stupid - they've been down this road with regional labor before. This is an honest question -- how much overlap between the SKYW delta flying and ASA delta flying is there? If there is none, then the issue is pretty clear cut. It's easy to separate who does what and what "struck work" is, and what isn't. It shouldn't even have to go this far, though. Right now, with no union, there is absolutely nothing but morals and ethics that dictate not flying struck work. And, worse than that, if a SKYW pilot refuses the route, there's no union mechanism in place to get his job back.

Hmm...get fired or fly the route? Technically SKYW isn't even union busting, because there is no union!

I often think that SKYW's place as the "most favored regional partner" is often due to the non-union status, especially after what happened with Comair in 2000.

Look, this isn't an attack on Skywest. I have friends there, many whom have been through several other failed airlines, and it does seem like a good place to work. Like it or not, though, this lack of union representation is really going to bite someone, and I think it's going to happen soon.

For heaven's sake, though, stop with the W2 comments. It's embarrassing. Just admit what happened - management made an 18 month promise and they broke it. Wow - your group is not the first nor will it be the last to be promised something and not see it come true. Is anyone at SKYW pursuing the 18 month thing from a legal standpoint? Or was it just some sort of "verbal" or "gentleman's" agreement? I ask because I really don't know.

Take care,
-brew3