Delta TA = ALPAs failure of representation for regionals

[xjhawk]

What is the language for Delta starting another SONG? Or creating another Compass to fly those 70 planes or even the 100 seater? Delta could say they are Delta pilots at another certificate? Don't get your panties all bunched up, its just a question. I have not read the Delta contract (its no longer a TA people).

 

[i fly boxes]

you are totally right xjhawk, Delta could close pinnacle down and start a new airline purchasing the mesaba certificate that is still running and call it compass 2. They could place all 70 900's and hire all new pilots there and the rest of us would pound sand. there is just no telling what is going on or what will happen.

 

[Skywest Pylot]

you are totally right xjhawk, Delta could close pinnacle down and start a new airline purchasing the mesaba certificate that is still running and call it compass 2. They could place all 70 900's and hire all new pilots there and the rest of us would pound sand. there is just no telling what is going on or what will happen.

The best thing you can do at this point is move onto a Major. It might sting at first (QOL, pay) but IMO, you will be happier and make more $ in the long run. I would not bet my career on a Regional (too much shuffling and uncertainty).

 

[JoeMerchant]

If only it were that easy every time there's a contract vote.

As opposed to the fragmented groups that ONLY vote for their own self interest.

More seats at the regional level? Fukc it, I'm senior, won't affect me.....

More regional aircraft allowed but HOLY COW, LOOK AT THOSE PAY RATES!! Look how much money I'm] gonna make!!!!!!!
(UAL contract 200/DAL contract 2001)

Let's see, this CBA isn't really that great, but I should vote YES since I'm gonna retire in a couple years so I want the pay raise NOW before I retire. As opposed to to it dragging out a few more years and [I/b] miss out on that money. Who cares about what happens after I get my money and leave.

I know you been around a while and have worked in various union capacities, etc. But if you don't think the mentality exists amongst ANY pilot group you're not paying attention. It's been going on since the beginning. Especially at a legacy level where there's more demographics and more division of interests within the pilot group as a whole.

This is exactly spot on...It is much easier to simply accept this fact of human nature (and specifically airline pilot human nature) then to try and change it.

I used to be an ALPA cheerleader too and tried to rally the troops to change behavior, but it became painfully obvious that was just urinating in the wind...The last straw was when I suggested we offer Comair pilots their DOH seniority as they were being drawn down and killed off by Delta. I was crucified...even by some of our union reps.

It's much easier to simply accept reality than to try and alter it.....

 

[JoeMerchant]

Again, those pilots already fly Delta passengers in airplanes that say Delta on the side. If Delta is ok with outsourcing their passengers to those pilots, then they can't complain about flowing them up as far as I'm concerned. Don't like the quality of pilot at certain regionals? Then you shouldn't be outsourcing to them in the first place.

Welcome back to the debate PCL...You sound very much like I did many years ago. The only reason this 35 percent hiring language was in there was because of the RJDC settlement.....It's token language to try and appease this side of the fence...

The true solution was a single list back when the PID was proposed....However that ship has sailed and now everyone just needs to accept it and move on...The conflict of interest will remain.

 

[PCL_128]

The conflict of interest is imaginary, Joe. It doesn't exist. What does exist is mainline pilot arrogance.

 

[Flyer1015]

The conflict of interest is imaginary, Joe. It doesn't exist. What does exist is mainline pilot arrogance.

You're living in some dream land if you think there is no conflict of interest.

 

[JoeMerchant]

The conflict of interest is imaginary, Joe. It doesn't exist. What does exist is mainline pilot arrogance.

You have to say the first part of your statement because you sit at one of those fancy conference tables in Herndon now.....The second part of your statement has always been true...

 

[dojetdriver]

But I don't think that applies in this case with this TA.

So with the yes/no percentages, you pooled EVERY pilot and feel you got the pulse on their overall reasons for voting?

 

[flyboyike]

The Pinnacle union is only concerned with the careers of the senior lifers. The top 300 or so. One of the biggest reasons the company is not competitive is because of how senior it is but the union will not allow their most senior to take a hit by themselves even though they have let the junior and the FO's take huge hits in the past while they gained from what was going on. Need examples? XJ 05' contract and the SLI. enough said. Time to leave.

I find it interesting that the management everywhere is telling employees the same thing: you're too senior, therefore not competitive. If Pinnacle that actually has some 1st and 2nd year employees is not competitive, then who, pray tell, is?

 

[PCL_128]

So with the yes/no percentages, you pooled EVERY pilot and feel you got the pulse on their overall reasons for voting?

Obviously not. I'm just saying that the TA had plenty of merit, and voting in favor of it was the smart move, not just a selfish move.

 

[ultrarunner]

Since when does the DAL MEC have a DFR to anyone other than a DAL pilot?????

 

[79%N1]

I find it interesting that the management everywhere is telling employees the same thing: you're too senior, therefore not competitive. If Pinnacle that actually has some 1st and 2nd year employees is not competitive, then who, pray tell, is?

GoJets. That's who we're all competing against now. The new kid on the block was very strategically brought in by Delta for this very reason. " Look everyone.....GoJets is cheaper." And it's true, they are. If that's the direction Delta wants to go, let them! They have lower rates, less longevity, less benefits, less soft time, etc, etc, etc. that is the gold standard that Upper Delta management uses to pound lower rates from everyone. The only problem is, those companies must slash costs from somewhere to be able to make some sort of small profit.

 

[Nevets]

There is no conflict of interest.

 

[ex j-41]

Delta pilot could make an addition that all new 70-90 seat aircraft will go to a wholly owned carrier. At least keep the flying somewhat in house.