Delta plans to open Saab 340 base at Atlanta hub

[fowingman]

mem wont close, becasue of fedex

 

[Stifler's Mom]

Wel that's the theory anyway. Does anyone actually recall the packs producing cold air?

I do recall when we flew them out of CVG about 4 years ago they produced cold air. Granted it was also December, but we got cold air out of them.

 

[DoinTime]

mem wont close, becasue of fedex

FedEx would love to see NW/DAL pull out of MEM.

 

[General Lee]

CVG and MEM is so GONE !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Wow, did he just post that? They both IS gone? Pure genius. BTW, CVG has the highest yield of any DL hub. I think it will be around a bit longer, with fewer RJs, though.


Bye Bye--General Lee

 

[nimtz]

FedEx would love to see NW/DAL pull out of MEM.

I doubt the FDX commuters would love that...

 

[~~~^~~~]

Boyd says the economics on the Saab aren't very good:

[FONT=Tahoma, Ariel, Lucida]Turboprops? Not Really. But, there isn't any relief in sight, even for shorter haul flying. Here's a flash: the costs of the 30-34 seat turboprops that are still flying (and no more are coming) are getting really onerous. From the Airports:USA DataMiner aircraft database, here are the overall all-up costs for a SF-340 on a 200-mile stage length at various fuel prices.[/FONT]

[FONT=Tahoma, Ariel, Lucida]We've done the math. Even at $3 a gallon, on a longer 300-mile stage length, the net ASM cost of a SF-340 is just under 30 cents. A 50-seat RJ is approximately 20 cents. When the math is done, the net sector costs of a SF-340 is approximately $3,000. The net sector costs of a 50-seat RJ: you guessed it. $3,000.[/FONT]​

[FONT=Tahoma, Ariel, Lucida]Point: There is no turboprop relief in sight for smaller communities. In fact, it would be a net plus in some cases to shift some of this flying to RJs. If the sector costs are similar, and there's 16 more seats to sell, it doesn't take an MBA from Wharton to figure it out. Countering this is the opportunity cost of applying a $15 million RJ asset into a market where its full operational potential might be better used elsewhere.[/FONT]​

[FONT=Tahoma, Ariel, Lucida]What's certain, however, is that fleets of 50-seat RJs are being reduced, and regardless of cost comparisons, there is limited traffic stimulation potential at many smaller communities.[/FONT]​

[FONT=Tahoma, Ariel, Lucida]Message: innovative marketing and strategic planning will be needed in the future at small and mid-size communities. The old ways of doing a "survey" or a "study" and then inflicting them, along with a community "delegation" on the airline planners, is near-certain to mostly waste time. The goal: identify new, clear value streams the community can develop.[/FONT]​

[FONT=Tahoma, Ariel, Lucida]We've done it for communities across the nation. If you're interested in investigating the future of air service retainment and recruitment, give Mike Mooney at Boyd Group International a call. (303) 674-2000.[/FONT]​

 

[TOOL CRIB]

I don't think these Saabs will be around very long. Just to cover some flying into HHH and such until Delta can get some bigger Tprops up to speed.

 

[DoinTime]

Boyd says the economics on the Saab aren't very good:

Thats why 50-seat jets replaced them in the first place. Small airplanes of any propulsion are dead with the economics of todays airlines. I see most of the remaining small t-props in America be put out to pasture as their leases come up.

 

[WMUSIGPI]

And now you can understand why our contract was extended to the end of 2011... gee when do our Saab leases expire, you guessed it 2011.... anyone care to guess what's going to happen to Mesaba pilots the end of 2011..... Buy your lube of choice now, we all should already know it won't be supplied by the company.

 

[Goose Egg]

Thats interesting. Wonder if Messaba will be flying SLC-SUN also down the road?

You blaspheme.

(On the more serious side, I could see something like this happening if/when SKW completely phases out the Bro. But I'll most likely have my jet transition (and possibly upgrade) by then, so if at that time Mesaba wants to contend with that RNAV approach, they can be my guest. I hope they get the TWF plates in their Jepps!)

-Goose

 

[WMUSIGPI]

The Saabs are not approved for RNAV approaches at Mesaba, only the jets.

 

[Goose Egg]

The Saabs are not approved for RNAV approaches at Mesaba, only the jets.

Well, I guess they are going to have one heck of a time with KSUN.

-Goose

 

[WSurf]

Well, I guess they are going to have one heck of a time with KSUN.

-Goose

NDB baby! Oldschool!

 

[Monster Buck]

I will bet you see the Mesaba saabs fly well into the next decade. (2015-2016) In fact like many other times said in the past of the DC-9 at NWA, they will probably go and pick up the pilots of newer planes when they drop of the newer planes at the desert.

 

[WMUSIGPI]

They should certainly be able to outlive the fine craftsmanship that is the CRJ.... You'll be lucky to be able to get the CRJ's TO the desert in a few years.

 

[Goose Egg]

NDB baby! Oldschool!

After a quick perusal of my KSUN Jepps, the NDB-DME approach has an MDA of 8000' (field elev is 5318), a vis min of 5 miles, and a missed approach point 5.3 NM from the threshold of Rwy 31. The RNAV W has an MDA of 7080, missed approach point at the threshold of 31, and vis mins of 1.5 for cat B.

The NDB is not better. Having the skill to actually fly these approaches is not the issue--getting weather good enough to get in with a plane load of cranky SUN pax is.

But I love flying SLC-SUN. It's one of my favorite legs, and it will be a sad day when I have to stop. I'm pretty sure there are some FAs who do not share my enthusiam.

-Goose

 

[WSurf]

After a quick perusal of my KSUN Jepps, the NDB-DME approach has an MDA of 8000' (field elev is 5318), a vis min of 5 miles, and a missed approach point 5.3 NM from the threshold of Rwy 31. The RNAV W has an MDA of 7080, missed approach point at the threshold of 31, and vis mins of 1.5 for cat B.

The NDB is not better. Having the skill to actually fly these approaches is not the issue--getting weather good enough to get in with a plane load of cranky SUN pax is.

But I love flying SLC-SUN. It's one of my favorite legs, and it will be a sad day when I have to stop. I'm pretty sure there are some FAs who do not share my enthusiam.

-Goose

Well of Course the NDB approach wouldn't be better. Is there anything worse then an NDB approach?

Having not flown there I did pull up the plates and looked a the airport. Kinda Cool! I think I would miss going there too!!!

 

[Goose Egg]

Having not flown there I did pull up the plates and looked a the airport. Kinda Cool! I think I would miss going there too!!!

Yeah, it's definitely cool. Too bad the overnights there are never that long.

-Goose

 

[SpauldingSmails]

On the topic of Mesaba SAABs... I was seated across the aisle from an XJ 340 CA on my commute.

He said that the 340s are becoming increasingly unreliable, spare parts are difficult to obtain, and he has heard rumour of a replacement. Also said there's an average of 4-6 340's down for maintenence on most days. Anyone else lend some weight (or discredit) to this?

I think the 340 serves its role perfectly, but you gotta admit they're getting long in the tooth. Has XJ refurbed any other 340's aside from 407XJ, inside or out?

 

[Raskal]

On the topic of Mesaba SAABs... I was seated across the aisle from an XJ 340 CA on my commute.

He said that the 340s are becoming increasingly unreliable, spare parts are difficult to obtain, and he has heard rumour of a replacement. Also said there's an average of 4-6 340's down for maintenence on most days. Anyone else lend some weight (or discredit) to this?

I think the 340 serves its role perfectly, but you gotta admit they're getting long in the tooth. Has XJ refurbed any other 340's aside from 407XJ, inside or out?

Where do people get this stuff? The 340's at XJ average to be about 11 years old. Parts are plenty, there is no issue of support from saab or any of the other oem's. 11 years is very young for an airliner. With that said, however, the paint on them is flat out embarrasing as is the interior condition. Taking care of the aircraft is definitely not our company's strong suit. The Saab's at Mesaba are as ghetto as they get.

It, like every aircraft on the planet, has quirks or systems that are less reliable than others. Also, factor in what the mx department is told to fix and to defer and with what quality of parts (when given a choice the cheaper the better-notice how well the new landing lights are working out?).

Take what you hear from pilots, expecially those whose experience consists of 1 post-college airline and 1 or 2 airplanes with a grain of salt.