Delta might offer CRJ70's to Mainline

[General Lee]

Ok now---take it easy. Easy there 9-11, don't blow a gasket. I am sure Aspen is tough in the winter at night---I bet I can go tit-for tat with all of you until we are sick----Like having to land a 757 into Kenai, Alaska in the winter (Due to a divert---ANC was fogged out) at night, no tower, 6500 feet, ice, nobody there--nothing but us and 150 pax---for 10 hours...yada yada yada.
Everyone has had war stories---congrats! I have flown on many 777 jumpseats and I also think that is an incredibly easy plane to fly---until you can't get straight in approaches---throw in weather and turns and every airplane is a little bit tougher to operate. Yippie. Got it?

Fins,

While you may think that we will take everything away from you, what should we do about our 1060 furloughed pilots? ASA has been nice enough to hire 13 of them (And they will eventually be hired at a good pace with us), but Comair will not. So, what can we do about them? We won't be receiving any 737-800's or A318's or 737-600's for a couple more years. Do we let them hang out for a couple more years? What new planes will Delta be getting in the near future, or what do they want right now? Answer is CRJ-70's and maybe 90's. You guys have been expanding like mad for the last year and a half. Good for you. Everyone there has gotten alittle more senior---which is great. Now Delta may want some scope relief, and have to ask us for it. Ofcourse we will want something for it---and we have 1060 pilots out right now. If ASA stopped hiring (due to E120's parking) and Comair says a flat out NO, what would you do? Dalpa doesn't make money with guys on the street---the only way to get dues is by getting them back in the cockpit. That would also lower the cobra payments all of us are gladly paying for the furloughs. It is a win-win for us. Delta would make a separate subsidiary, and gladly put those 70 seaters where they need them, with our furloughed pilots flying them. Delta right now has 340 or so extra pilots they do not know what to do with (after stopping furloughs at 1060----originally would have gone to 1400). What do you Fins want to say to the 340 pilots that were not furloughed? How about---hey guys--come to my right seat at ASA/Comair---or how about some go to the left seat and some to the right of new CRJ70's. Which do you think they would want to do? The rates would be competitive and would get the pilots back in the cockpit.
Any problems with that?

Bye Bye---General Lee

 

[rjcap]

Gen Lee,

While anything is possible, I don't see Leo going for 70's on mainline. Its just to big a can of worms to open considering all the fuss that would create with op integration, pay rates and so on and so on.

Regarding the mainline pilots on furlough. Unfortunately the higher cost of labor is what will keep them out of the picture. The Usair, United and upcoming American bankruptcy will further squeeze Bid D into a corner and subsequently the mainline pilots.

Anything is possbile and I don't doubt Leo is negotiating everything for the pupose of finding some common ground. However, as a previous poster stated, the ancillary costs associated with mainline incorporating a Canadair product into their operations would only worsen the economic benefits of operating the RJ 70.

Time will tell.

 

[wil]

General- I can't speak for Comair but we should suspend all outside hiring and bring our furloughed brothers/sisters in from the street. And as conditions improve they can move back to mainline as feasible. All the talk of scope, jets for jobs, et cetera it is all B.S. The real enemy is the 325.00 walk-up fare (sameday) from TPA to LAX by SWA!! (My brother had to do this last month when he got stuck on a pass and had to get home). I'm not willing to give up my job and I don't expect a handout from mainline- I can pee in tall weeds with the best of them-but we have got to work together or we will all be on the street! Wil

 

[VFR on Top]

Checkessential,

Have you ever landed a 767-300 into LGA at night with high winds? No? That's what I thought. Flying a larger plane is a lot more stressful in certain situations than flying an RJ. Don't get me wrong, I like the RJ. Ever had a bad landing (due to winds, ofcourse) with 250 people behind you? Just because they are both advanced (777 and CRJ) doesn't mean they fly the same.

So what you're saying is that people who fly small jets aren't really qualified to fly large ones? Bad news for all the fighter pilots over whom the majors refuse the "one list" concept.

 

[CatYaaak]

Checkessential,

Have you ever landed a 767-300 into LGA at night with high winds? No? That's what I thought. Flying a larger plane is a lot more stressful in certain situations than flying an RJ. Don't get me wrong, I like the RJ. Ever had a bad landing (due to winds, ofcourse) with 250 people behind you?....
Bye Bye---General Lee

umm.....okaaaaaaaay.

 

[sleepy]

Checkessential,

Have you ever landed a 767-300 into LGA at night with high winds? No? That's what I thought. Flying a larger plane is a lot more stressful in certain situations than flying an RJ. Don't get me wrong, I like the RJ. Ever had a bad landing (due to winds, ofcourse) with 250 people behind you? Just because they are both advanced (777 and CRJ) doesn't mean they fly the same.


Well no general I have not done it in a 767, but I have done it in a DC-8. Have you ever landed a DC-8 in heavy winds, at night, after shooting an approach to minimums, raw data (FD and AP differed, as usual)? So what, now I fly an RJ.

 

[~~~^~~~]

While you may think that we will take everything away from you, what should we do about our 1060 furloughed pilots?:

Your MEC made that decision. Your MEC lied at the 2000 BOD meeting and stopped the PID that would have put your pilots right into the left seat of CRJ700's. Your furloughed pilots made the choice, through their representatives and should hold those representatives responsible.

I know your fleet plan is a disaster. All the MD88's & 90's, the MD11's, the old gen 737's and 727's all all scheduled to be gone in 5 to 6 years with only ~45 737-800's on the order books after 2005. That is why we told you that you needed us before.

But it is completely wrong for your MEC to exclude us, stop us from negotiating, lock us out of the negotiations and simply steal what ever they desire from our operation.

ASA has been nice enough to hire 13 of them (And they will eventually be hired at a good pace with us), but Comair will not. :

Oh Bull effluvia. You don't control that. Those Northwestern University Interns will get hired before any of us. So you are telling me that you would rather fly a month with me than a Comair pilot? Ha Ha - at least I would be a good volunteer at the LEC level.

Any problems with that? Bye Bye---General Lee

Yes, I have a problem with your MEC using ALPA to lock ASA pilots out of negotiations, then while our seat is empty you guys taking equipment that you already sold in previous negotiations. When you sell something it is no longer yours.

When I hired into ASA, we had four engine jets seating up to 105 pax. Now our union president is running around calling 50 seats a "natural dividing line" and you are giddly like a school girl to fly my airplane. Yes, I'm concerned. Even more so because ALPA feels they are above the law and they are desperate. (Jets for jobs is current ALPA policy) Delta is equally desperate.

Everyone on this board wrote that my earlier prognostications about jets for hobs at Delta was over pessimisitic, yet, here we are. The RJDC is the only thing that can throw a wrench in the DALPA machinery and don't kid yourself into believing the Comair suit is the only litigation that is ready to be filed.

If ALPA dares to try this, they had better allow the proper representation of all the ALPA pilots involved.

~~~^~~~

 

[General Lee]

RJCAP,

I know you may think that we at mainline are high priced and that it would never float with management, but I heard this rumor last Friday in the ATL Chief Pilot's office---which in reality is from Management. (Management pilots) They were talking about what THEY could offer Dalpa---it wasn't our idea. They obviously want some scope relief and they know that they have an excess of pilots. The separate subsidiary thing came out of their mouths, not mine. If Leo Mullin could get his hands on more 70 seaters than the allotted 57, and he has the options for 50 or 70 seaters, and he has too many mainline pilots now, don't you think he would go for it? I really don't think that Dalpa would negotiate rates that were way too expensive---they just want to get our pilots back---and Dalpa will win because we all know that ALPA is a business----and dues are important to them. IF there were a pre-set number of 70 seaters---like 50---and that was it, I bet Dalpa would go for it.

Fins,

I know you are upset, but what should we do about the 1060 out right now? Stop blaming our MEC and look at the problem. How about you call each one of them up and tell them too bad and it was the MEC's fault. Come on! We have 1060 pilots out and it may be a long time before they get back. Comair won't help period. ASA helped alittle, but now the hiring has stopped. Should we just sit around and complain about our MEC's misgivings and watch you guys grow and grow while our pilots sit out? Wrong. You never address the issue of what to do with the 1060. We should just sacrifice them, right? It was all their fault and they deserve to sit out, right? We have the sims available (yeah, I know the CRJ70 doesn't have a sim--but I believe there is a conversion course in YUL after you get the type on the CRJ50--right? We have plenty on CRJ50 sims, and plenty of flights to YUL). And, by the way, the FAA has approved a single type for the 737-600, 737-800, 757,767, 764,777 when Delta eventually puts the same displays in all of those aircraft (at a cost of $2mil per plane) in the future. Our training costs will go down big time, and our fleet will lose the MD88's eventually and be streamlined.
So, to sum it up---we have to help our furloughs because we aren't getting much help from anyone else. I am sure every furlough wouldn't mind flying that nice CRJ70, and Delta would probably like the scope relief---and we greedy mainline pilots have to help the company some how.....

Bye Bye---General Lee

 

[sleepy]

Actually General, there are several CRJ-700 sims around. The one in Atlanta (FSI) should be on line in March or April 2003. ASA trains you in the CRJ-200 first, then sends you through a differences training course for the 700. I guess you could do the whole initial course in the 700 though.

Should be interesting if you all try to take the 700's from ASA and Comair. That should help the RJDC fund raising efforts. Hell, I might even join too.

 

[NYRANGERS]

Should be interesting if you all try to take the 700's from ASA and Comair. That should help the RJDC fund raising efforts. Hell, I might even join too.

I don't think the alloted amout of 57 to 76 700's would be flown by furloughed pilots. We would fly any amount our mec MAY allow over that amount.

Do you really think that 1060 of us should just remain jobless so you can continue to hire?(not sure if you work for a DCI carrier)

We tried to make it possible for us to come over to CMR and work at the bottom of their list.They said they were not interested unless we gave huge concessions. What the he11 do you expect us to do now? CMR had thier chance to work with us, now we have moved on and are seeking other alternatives. We fly the alotted overage of 700's under a separate PWA negotiaited for us by DALPA.

Now I am not saying this will come to fruition, but like you guys keep telling us........We are going to be furloughed for a long time. So we are going to try to do something about it.