Delta might offer CRJ70's to Mainline

[FlyDeltasJets]

It would lead to a PID. However, it would not lead to a merger because the decision is mgt's. We have no authority to force them to merge the lists, and I think it would be a cold day in Hades before they did. That is what is so humorous about those who blame Delta pilots for the fact that we don't have onelist. It's not our call. It's mgt's, and they would never give up their cost advantage or "portfolio".

 

[~~~^~~~]

Good point - but the "no operational integration" arguement was bull effluvia back then and they knew it. They actually changed the definition in the Consitution and Bylaws to try to hide the fact that the airlines were operationally integrated by the current standard of the day. Also there were some out right lies told at the BOD to muddy the issue even further.

However, the Connection pilots have always been in the position to get stapled. Not many of us want on the bottom of the Delta list at the moment. At the same timem the Delta MEC feels they can simply take the airplanes without having to fight for one list - or water down their airline by allowing a bunch of sub standard pilots to come on board before their military buddies - so there is no political will for a PID at the moment. Any politician that supported it would lose his job during the next vote. So don't expect anything there.

The RJDC litigation keeps the Delta MEC from doing anything really nasty to the Connection pilots - IE Jets for Jobs. The outcome of the motions heard on the 29th of January may have a pretty significant effect on how much latitude the Delta MEC has in these negotiations. If the suit survives, ALPA National will have to excert some control over the predatory actions of the mainline MEC. If the suit is dismissed, the Delta MEC can take what ever they want from Connection - there will be no one to stop them.

 

[sleepy]

It would lead to a PID. However, it would not lead to a merger because the decision is mgt's. We have no authority to force them to merge the lists, and I think it would be a cold day in Hades before they did. That is what is so humorous about those who blame Delta pilots for the fact that we don't have onelist. It's not our call. It's mgt's, and they would never give up their cost advantage or "portfolio".

Actually, it was DALPA and ALPA national that blocked the PID. It never made it to management for a decision.

 

[FlyDeltasJets]

Would it have mattered? We cannot combine the lists. Only mgt can, and they have gone on record stating that they would spin off DCI before agreeing to merge them.

Without their permission, anything we do is purely academic.

 

[NYRANGERS]

How about we merge the lists DOH, and put up a 30 year fence. Nothing bigger than the 70 seater, with only 57 available for CMR. This is only way I see this ever happening. No DCI pilot deserves to be one number higher than any Delta mainline pilot currently on the list!!!!!!!!!! But I guess a 20 or 30 year fence might shut up the DOH people.

Have a nice day,

NYR

 

[General Lee]

Checkessential,

Have you ever landed a 767-300 into LGA at night with high winds? No? That's what I thought. Flying a larger plane is a lot more stressful in certain situations than flying an RJ. Don't get me wrong, I like the RJ. Ever had a bad landing (due to winds, ofcourse) with 250 people behind you? Just because they are both advanced (777 and CRJ) doesn't mean they fly the same.


Fins,
Integration of the senority list would not be possible if management made another subsidiary with CRJ70's and allowed furloughed pilots to fly them. There is nothing the RJDC or anybody could do about it. They could call it "Dance" and let it fly "filler" flights between larger cities and limit it to 40 or 50 CRJ70's. If they tag it on to mainline, then the regional guys could claim integration, but with another subsidiary, they cannot.
Is this a J4J situation? Yes. We want our furloughed pilots back on the property, and we could possibly negotiate a reasonable rate for the CRJ-70, as long as there is a definite number of them allowed---like 50. If we gave them "unlimited" numbers---guess what? All we would have would be CRJ-70's. Atleast we have the sims already---in ATL. (also in Montreal, SLC, CVG, and Lyon)
I think our furloughed pilots (and some junior mainline ones that want to be Captains) would go for it in a second. I don't think the RJDC would have a case here----the company is in charge of where the jets go.

Bye Bye---General Lee

 

[Russ]

I try not to get pulled down into the gutter....

Gen Lee
One of the side effects of the current situation is that there are alot more mil heavy drivers at the regionals than there ever used to be. Many say that due to the lack of automation, no LEDs and other considerations that it was harder to fly than the heavy they came from. Many flew aircraft larger than the 767. This is from folks who have flown both. The 727 I flew as a FO could be a handful, but the level of competence was nothing a RJ guy couldn't master in short order.

 

[DCAV8R]

General Lee wrote:

"Have you ever landed a 767-300 into LGA at night with high winds? No? That's what I thought. Flying a larger plane is a lot more stressful in certain situations than flying an RJ. Don't get me wrong, I like the RJ. Ever had a bad landing (due to winds, ofcourse) with 250 people behind you? Just because they are both advanced (777 and CRJ) doesn't mean they fly the same."

Give me a break General - I just happened to have a Delta 777 Capt. on my jumpseat last night - according to him the 777 is one of the easiest airplanes to fly and land - x-wind or no x-wind.

Have you ever landed an RJ into Key West with a howling x-wind out of the north?

DCAv8r

 

[~~~^~~~]

Checkessential,

Have you ever landed a 767-300 into LGA at night with high winds? No? That's what I thought.

Have you ever landed that darn ATR in a crosswind. There are 10 speed bikes less top heavy and with a wider footprint.

As far as another subsidiary - I hope your MEC will finally stop the proliferation of alter ego flying, but 'eh, its your C scale. Where does Delta have a CRJ700 sim in Atlanta? ASA is working on one, but it is not up and certified yet. You guys going to take that too?

Heck, why don't you just take all of our airplanes? See if you can get Milosevic to turn the ASA pilots into fill dirt for the runway expansion project.

You guys already feel you are above the law. If you are going to be crazy - why hold back on us? Go completely Mariah Carey.

 

[Mayday911]

General Lee,

You ever land a BAe-146 in Aspen, at night with howling winds? I didn't think so...LGA piece of cake.

Cross wind...thats when the downwind wheel is supposed to touch first right, or is it...**CENSORED****CENSORED****CENSORED****CENSORED**!!

Get your head out of your rear, you are not a hero cause you fly an airplane that carries 250 people.

Mayday.

 

[General Lee]

Ok now---take it easy. Easy there 9-11, don't blow a gasket. I am sure Aspen is tough in the winter at night---I bet I can go tit-for tat with all of you until we are sick----Like having to land a 757 into Kenai, Alaska in the winter (Due to a divert---ANC was fogged out) at night, no tower, 6500 feet, ice, nobody there--nothing but us and 150 pax---for 10 hours...yada yada yada.
Everyone has had war stories---congrats! I have flown on many 777 jumpseats and I also think that is an incredibly easy plane to fly---until you can't get straight in approaches---throw in weather and turns and every airplane is a little bit tougher to operate. Yippie. Got it?

Fins,

While you may think that we will take everything away from you, what should we do about our 1060 furloughed pilots? ASA has been nice enough to hire 13 of them (And they will eventually be hired at a good pace with us), but Comair will not. So, what can we do about them? We won't be receiving any 737-800's or A318's or 737-600's for a couple more years. Do we let them hang out for a couple more years? What new planes will Delta be getting in the near future, or what do they want right now? Answer is CRJ-70's and maybe 90's. You guys have been expanding like mad for the last year and a half. Good for you. Everyone there has gotten alittle more senior---which is great. Now Delta may want some scope relief, and have to ask us for it. Ofcourse we will want something for it---and we have 1060 pilots out right now. If ASA stopped hiring (due to E120's parking) and Comair says a flat out NO, what would you do? Dalpa doesn't make money with guys on the street---the only way to get dues is by getting them back in the cockpit. That would also lower the cobra payments all of us are gladly paying for the furloughs. It is a win-win for us. Delta would make a separate subsidiary, and gladly put those 70 seaters where they need them, with our furloughed pilots flying them. Delta right now has 340 or so extra pilots they do not know what to do with (after stopping furloughs at 1060----originally would have gone to 1400). What do you Fins want to say to the 340 pilots that were not furloughed? How about---hey guys--come to my right seat at ASA/Comair---or how about some go to the left seat and some to the right of new CRJ70's. Which do you think they would want to do? The rates would be competitive and would get the pilots back in the cockpit.
Any problems with that?

Bye Bye---General Lee

 

[rjcap]

Gen Lee,

While anything is possible, I don't see Leo going for 70's on mainline. Its just to big a can of worms to open considering all the fuss that would create with op integration, pay rates and so on and so on.

Regarding the mainline pilots on furlough. Unfortunately the higher cost of labor is what will keep them out of the picture. The Usair, United and upcoming American bankruptcy will further squeeze Bid D into a corner and subsequently the mainline pilots.

Anything is possbile and I don't doubt Leo is negotiating everything for the pupose of finding some common ground. However, as a previous poster stated, the ancillary costs associated with mainline incorporating a Canadair product into their operations would only worsen the economic benefits of operating the RJ 70.

Time will tell.

 

[wil]

General- I can't speak for Comair but we should suspend all outside hiring and bring our furloughed brothers/sisters in from the street. And as conditions improve they can move back to mainline as feasible. All the talk of scope, jets for jobs, et cetera it is all B.S. The real enemy is the 325.00 walk-up fare (sameday) from TPA to LAX by SWA!! (My brother had to do this last month when he got stuck on a pass and had to get home). I'm not willing to give up my job and I don't expect a handout from mainline- I can pee in tall weeds with the best of them-but we have got to work together or we will all be on the street! Wil

 

[VFR on Top]

Checkessential,

Have you ever landed a 767-300 into LGA at night with high winds? No? That's what I thought. Flying a larger plane is a lot more stressful in certain situations than flying an RJ. Don't get me wrong, I like the RJ. Ever had a bad landing (due to winds, ofcourse) with 250 people behind you? Just because they are both advanced (777 and CRJ) doesn't mean they fly the same.

So what you're saying is that people who fly small jets aren't really qualified to fly large ones? Bad news for all the fighter pilots over whom the majors refuse the "one list" concept.

 

[CatYaaak]

Checkessential,

Have you ever landed a 767-300 into LGA at night with high winds? No? That's what I thought. Flying a larger plane is a lot more stressful in certain situations than flying an RJ. Don't get me wrong, I like the RJ. Ever had a bad landing (due to winds, ofcourse) with 250 people behind you?....
Bye Bye---General Lee

umm.....okaaaaaaaay.