Delta might offer CRJ70's to Mainline

[General Lee]

Furloughedagain and Sleepy,

What are you guys talking about? First of all, none of the current Comair or ASA pilots would be furloughed, the only thing that would happen is future growth would grind to a stop(like ours.) Oh wait, you would still get tons of 50 seaters. There would be a separate subsidiary with new CRJ70's---not the ones you fly or have on order(up to 57). Since Delta ----not Comair or ASA---has options on CRJ50's and 70's---possibly those options would go towards 70 seaters and those new ones would be at the subsidiary----some people have called Dance. All of this comes from the ATL Chief Pilot's office---and they are the ones you should direct your anger to. As far as the RJDC, it has no say in where the planes go----the company does. If the company wants scope relief from a contract that was signed by the management who owns all of us, then we might give it to them---possibly helping our furloughs. You think we are greedy at mainline? Take a look in the mirror----"you can't take away our growth (like we are doing to you), I'm going to tell my Mom!!!" You guys are growing at a huge rate right now, and we are shrinking. (sure, RJ's are helping us---ok---we'll fly some new ones now---and we will help Mama Delta---right?) I am sure we can come up with a fair rate that gets our guys back in the sky and gives Mama Delta some relief, which is what everyone wants, right? Right.

Bye Bye---General Lee

 

[~~~^~~~]

We are going to be furloughed for a long time. So we are going to try to do something about it.

Your MEC's actions are why you (they) are furloughed. What your MEC did in the fall of 2000 put you on the street. What your MEC did a month ago drove the point home - they are more concerned about future military pilots than they are putting the 1,060 back to work under any sort of plan that would be mutually beneficial to the Connection pilots.

If you guys want RJ's, then you need to come up with inclusive scope, just like the Comair MEC told you. Comair never said "no" they said "lets negotiate." The Delta MEC Chairman is the one that refused to work something (anything) out - citing his concern for future military pilots.

The Delta MEC has had every opportunity to fix this problem, but they refuse to allow the Connection pilots to be part of the solution. I'm telling you now, believe me later, we are going to get to the negotiating table.

Not that our arguement matters much here. ALPA's motion for dismissal is going very badly - so badly that they have revised it three times. ALPA's revisions (in violation of Court protocol) have delayed the Court's ruling in the matter, but these sort of amended filings are sure signs that they think their earlier responses were lacking.

Thank you General Lee and NY Rangers for illustrating just why the RJDC is relevant and needed to protect my job.

 

[NYRANGERS]

Your MEC's actions are why you (they) are furloughed. What your MEC did in the fall of 2000 put you on the street. What your MEC did a month ago drove the point home - they are more concerned about future military pilots than they are putting the 1,060 back to work under any sort of plan that would be mutually beneficial to the Connection pilots.

If you guys want RJ's, then you need to come up with inclusive scope, just like the Comair MEC told you. Comair never said "no" they said "lets negotiate." The Delta MEC Chairman is the one that refused to work something (anything) out - citing his concern for future military pilots.

The Delta MEC has had every opportunity to fix this problem, but they refuse to allow the Connection pilots to be part of the solution. I'm telling you now, believe me later, we are going to get to the negotiating table.

Not that our arguement matters much here. ALPA's motion for dismissal is going very badly - so badly that they have revised it three times and the most recent revision counters their earlier allegations. ALPA's revisions have delayed the Court's ruling in the matter, but these sort of amended filings are sure signs that they think their earlier responses were lacking.

Thank you General Lee and NY Rangers for illustrating just why the RJDC is relevant and needed to protect my job.

Just one more thing. Getting our 1060 pilots back to work will have nothing to do with you or your airline. If we want RJ's we only need Delta to make it happen, again this has nothing to do with you. We are not really in the negotiating mood anymore. We will find our own ways to get 1060 pilots flying again. We don't need your help on this one.

So sue away, you and your rjdc buddies can try all you like to destroy the industry. It looks like we are moving to a point of no return with regards to union commonality to combat your weak and tired guys who need to sue for their failures in life.

Try to remember, I don't want your job and I don't want you to loose your job. I just want a job for the 1060.

Please explain how by my getting a job will endanger your job. I mean, how many friggin planes can you fly at once? I have seen children with a more mature attitude.

Anyway I can see where this is headed, so BYE BYE for now.

NYR

PS anyone know where I can get a hold of a CL 65 manual? Just want to be prepared!

 

[FlyDeltasJets]

Your MEC's actions are why you (they) are furloughed. What your MEC did in the fall of 2000 put you on the street.

You are deluded if you think that is the reason we are furloughed. Do you honestly believe it would have made the slightest bit of difference if they approved the PID?

It wouldn't have. Mgt would never merge the lists. Please give me one good reason why they would.



What your MEC did a month ago drove the point home - they are more concerned about future military pilots than they are putting the 1,060 back to work under any sort of plan that would be mutually beneficial to the Connection pilots.




Because they wouldn't agree to demolish our scope clause?




If you guys want RJ's, then you need to come up with inclusive scope, just like the Comair MEC told you.


Actually, if we want rjs, we'll attempt to get them through negotiations with our management. You, despite your illusions, have nothing to do with it.



Comair never said "no" they said "lets negotiate." The Delta MEC Chairman is the one that refused to work something (anything) out - citing his concern for future military pilots.

Actually, lawson asked us to (among other things) detroy our scope and then try to negotiate scope for them. Sorry. Not going to happen. I support my mec's decision. While he did not agree to "total" preferential hiring, he wasn't asking for it from the cmr mec either.




The Delta MEC has had every opportunity to fix this problem, but they refuse to allow the Connection pilots to be part of the solution. I'm telling you now, believe me later, we are going to get to the negotiating table.[b/]

Have fun when you're there. You will fail to abrogate our contract in court, and you will fail to do so at the negotiating table.



Not that our arguement matters much here. ALPA's motion for dismissal is going very badly - so badly that they have revised it three times. ALPA's revisions (in violation of Court protocol) have delayed the Court's ruling in the matter, but these sort of amended filings are sure signs that they think their earlier responses were lacking.


You're interpretation is incorrect. ALPA revised their motion because this is a fluid environment, and things change. One thing that changed is the new scope limits were set, which changed a portion of the motion. Read into it however you will. You will still lose, and even if you were to win, we're out of here. We'll start our own union, keep our scope clause, and tell you to go pound sand. And before you respond that if we do that you'll get to negotiate with Delta, you just told me that you're going to do that anyway. It still won't matter. You won't abrogate our contract, no matter how hard you try. (P.S. the mere effort to interfere with, abrogate, or emliminate the contract of another pilot group is grounds for dismissal from the union. That ball has already been put in motion.)



Thank you General Lee and NY Rangers for illustrating just why the RJDC is relevant and needed to protect my job.

Your job is not threatened. Ours are.

 

[General Lee]

Fins,

I know it seems like you are "fighting for your survival" out there, but what about the 1060 pilots that are on the street? We need to find a cockpit for them to fly in---and you yourself said that we aren't getting any new airplanes anytime soon---except maybe some RJ's. Sounds like a solution to me. But, you want to hurry up and get the RJ's and upgrades for yourselves, and maybe let our furloughed pilots sit at the bottom and fly continuous duty overnights for 3 years until they come back. Well, how about we form a separate subsidiary and fly 50 70 seaters ourselves and bypass the whole process? I know you think our MEC is Satan and he is ruining this for all of us. If Comair's MEC had just allowed some of our pilots to go to the bottom of their list, this whole thing might not have occured. I think you should blame Lawson for this mess also. You guys have had HUGE growth in the last 18 months---and that has helped you big time. How about giving a little back to the furloughed pilots? Our MEC's primary job is to look out for Delta pilots first, and then maybe your issues. It sounds like Lawson got off to a bad start with Buergy, and that wasn't very smart. I really don't think allowing some of our furloughed pilots to the Bottom of Comair's list was that big of a deal, but Lawson made it one. Allowing our pilots to go to the bottom would have been one step in mending bridges, but he blew it. When Delta comes asking for concessions eventually, I believe that our MEC will be looking out for all of OUR pilots---no doubt about it.

Bye Bye---General Lee

 

[Otto]

No way!!!!

Furloughedagain and Sleepy,

You think we are greedy at mainline? Take a look in the mirror....You guys are growing at a huge rate right now, and we are shrinking.

Bye Bye---General Lee

Man, I guess I was out of town and my answering machine was off when Leo called to ask me how I wanted to allocate the Delta fleet. Anyone else at Comair or ASA miss the call?

 

[FlyDeltasJets]

It seems that the rjdc didn't miss it.

 

[sleepy]

I thought you guys were implying some scheme by which DALPA would take the aircraft presently at ASA and Comair, and fly them with furloughed mainline pilots. If that is not the case, then I have no problem with you getting your own CR7's for the mainline. If you can make that deal with DAL, then go for it.

I have always supported the hiring of furloughed mainline (or any line for that matter) pilots at my airline, ASA. That is how I got here. What the Comair pilots do is their business, they will have to deal with the fall-out someday.

General, are you saying that in exchange for enough CR7's at mainline to give all 1060 furloughed pilots a job (I guess around 200 aircraft), you will allow more CR7's at ASA/Comair? Is that what you are saying the plan is?

If so, then what happens to all of those CR7 aircraft at mainline after all of the 1060 move up to 7NG, etc...?

 

[avrodriver]

General, are you saying that in exchange for enough CR7's at mainline to give all 1060 furloughed pilots a job (I guess around 200 aircraft), you will allow more CR7's at ASA/Comair? Is that what you are saying the plan is?




I don't think you get it.......what they are saying isn't any type of deal....they don't have to negotiate anything or give anything to Comair/ASA. I think if they started taking future delieveries of the 70 seater after you guys got your required 57 or whatever number it is I wouldn't see any reason for them not to take the remainder of all of the orders.....1060 is alot of guys, enough to staff about 100 airplanes or more and get everyone off the street, why stop there when they could actually grow and start hiring again. Delta has the planes on order/option and has them promised to no one. Up to this point we all thought they would go to Comair or ASA, but yeah......I guess why not Delta itself
if they can make it economical enough for mgmt to bite. It will be interesting to see how it plays out. Yes I think operating cost will be more, but why pay guys to sit at home when they can make them money or at least help them break even, on the flip side I wonder if the whole victory for the furloughs would even matter if Delta declared file Chaper 11 (easy way to get out of it I bet, and compete with the big two big U's). In any event, congrads to Delta guys for putting a stop to using 9/11 as an excuse to keep screwing pilots, well played! -A.D.

 

[checkessential]

This is hysterical. DALPA would not even think about concessions to save their own, and still won't. So now it's my job they want? Yeah, sure and I'll take a couple MD-88's with that order.