Delta Connection Academy...THOUGHTS????

[bender]

4. Now Boisterous Bronco - I thought hard about what you said and I apologize to those who must read your callous engagements. (To be fair it is Bronco, neither he nor she) Sadly it didn't get hired by what was then 'Comair', but it sure wanted to, I'm sure it is a good pilot, especially with so many hours, but that doesn't make it's stories quite up-to-date or it's knowledge of 141 regulations better than who it thinks its' talking to. Presumption kills partner, as does old, second-hand information and DA's in AGL. The distance you traveled to your interview matters not. 'Promises' are incorrect. And sadly, in your case, experience dosen't make you a chicken, although the feathers are a nice touch.
You argue to hear yourself and that is tragic as people here seem to be trying to find their way. Right now, I hear you typing away waiting to trounce those you mean to plunder. Oppression is what your parents did to you by keeping you down in the basement for so many years, oppression is what is happening in Sudan, oppression is what happened and is happening to women and blacks (is this you) for so many centuries and is still happening today, oppression is what glass ceilings are all about, but it is not what is happening here now or what I argue happened to you on your trip to this place many years ago, depite what you say. If oppression to you is being rejected by 'Comair' or not getting a rejection letter (if you like I can write one for you) or a sales person being mean to you: get a dictionary and some scruples; seriously, that word for your meaning? You have semantic blockage

Dang, yur one of them angry tards ain't ya!

 

[jppt2000]

Where's the luv Booby?
Oh uh, Where's the love Booby?
Booby is a paralegal, not a tax lawyer.
Since those schools didn't hire him, he rants about age discrimination and the evils of PFT.
Boob, with your attitude,
I'm willing to bet your future at Comair along with whatever carrier you interviewed at was determined in the first few minutes of the interview.
It's hard to imagine spending 4, 5, 6 days out on the line with you.
The only person(s) I've argued with the most on a regular basis,
is you.
I think you have other login names also, along with some major issues.
Oh, I never take pleasure in someone's bad luck.
I do however get tired of people who blame the system rather than themselves.

 

[jppt2000]

By the way, the word is spelled "bodacious."[/QUOTE]

Yupper Boob, or Phil maybe?
just used the spelling of previous poster.

To borrow from your previous example:

con·de·scend


1. To descend to the level of one considered inferior; lower oneself. See Synonyms at stoop1.
2. To deal with people in a patronizingly superior manner.

Have you ever heard someone use this term when describing the way you speak to people?

Hanging around the legal eagles, I see you've picked up on on a popular scheme,
taking words out of context.

 

[bobbysamd]

Where's the luv Booby?
Oh uh, Where's the love Booby?
Booby is a paralegal, not a tax lawyer.
Since those schools didn't hire him, he rants about age discrimination and the evils of PFT.
Boob, with your attitude,
I'm willing to bet your future at Comair along with whatever carrier you interviewed at was determined in the first few minutes of the interview.
It's hard to imagine spending 4, 5, 6 days out on the line with you.
The only person(s) I've argued with the most on a regular basis,
is you.
I think you have other login names also, along with some major issues.
Oh, I never take pleasure in someone's bad luck.
I do however get tired of people who blame the system rather than themselves.

By the way, the word is spelled "bodacious."Yupper Boob, or Phil maybe?
just used the spelling of previous poster.

To borrow from your previous example:

con·de·scend


1. To descend to the level of one considered inferior; lower oneself. See Synonyms at stoop1.
2. To deal with people in a patronizingly superior manner.

Have you ever heard someone use this term when describing the way you speak to people?

Hanging around the legal eagles, I see you've picked up on on a popular scheme,
taking words out of context.

See my remarks, above, regarding this poster and those in response to "Skydesk," above, which I incorporate herein by reference.

 

[BODENE]

I must respond to this as I attended Delta Connection Academy and was a flight instructor there for about a year. I can tell you this place is not what it is cracked up to be! The training may be good but is extremely expensive for what it is worth. The way they run the school is hideous with outdated equipment and management that really does not know what is going on half the time. I would be extremely cautious about putting my money there. You may even run the risk of teaching at a satellite campus somewhere! I had a former student now instructor pass the Stands course and was offered a job in Boston....That was the only alternative after he invested over 100K.

I could not imagine paying over 7k for an MEI rating either! I can tell you that although I attended there, I did not need the academy to get a job! There are many ways of getting hired and many opportunties for everyone out there. I have spoken with many good pilots that have gone the Part 61 route and have been successful at the airline and the corporate market.

I hope everything works out for you!

 

[LXApilot]

The REAL DCA

I did my CFI and CFII at Comair Aviation Academy in Jacksonville, Florida while I was in the college program at JU. Let me give you some of my own personal observations and feedback:

PRO
1) Comair Aviation Academy (aka. Delta Connection Academy) is a good place to do your CFI ratings. The amount of technical knowledge they require you to know seems ridiculous, but you come away with a tremendous working knowledge. The structure and environment are good for CFI's who want to go on to instruct at other part 141 schools. When you finish your CFI/CFII you are knowlegeable, sharp, and on the ball - ready for a teaching job.

CON
2) My biggest problem with everyone involved with CAA in general was the fact that it is "the quick route" that yields little to no practical experience and therefore holds no real value in its flight time. I flew boxes and execs for a company I worked with in high school when I got my commercial ticket; the people at CAA frowned on that "outside" experience and were hostile to me because of it. They view outsiders as "not as good" and tend to think of themselves as the end all and be all of flight training. "Oh, you were part 61..." was something I heard a lot about me when I was there. Must have burst their bubble when I finished CFII in two days; an academy record that - at least to my knowledge- still holds. These people have 1000 hours in their logbook, but they have flown the same 1 hour 1000 times. Not 1000 different hours as their logs suggest. Ask them about flying into PDK, PTK, TEB, CHO, MEM, MCO, MIA, ORD, you name it... they've never been there, they don't have a clue, and they don't care which is the scariest part. There have been two times when I was embarrased about my past association with CAA. One was on the ramp at CRG when one of their CFI applicants asked me what a Citation looked like... this kid is going to be TEACHING students and he can't identify the most popular corporate jet in the world. The second was when a friend of mine started explaining the reasons for wanting to go rent a twin outside of Comair and fly into some "non CAA approved airports" to get some experience. One very misled CAA CFI looked at us and said "but thats stupid. Why do that? You dont need to do that to get hired to fly the RJ." I personally just couldnt stand the arrogance and clueless mentality that seemed to be so contagious there. CAA is such a small and fairly insignificant part of the flying world, but they believe that aviation revolves around them. When you add it all up, what does it mean? It means watch out when flying with anyone from CAA; not because they cant fly, but because its like flying with a student who just soloed. They think they are hot $hit; but their radios suck, their flight planning sucks, their aviation decision making sucks. They've never seen icing, they've never seen traffic, they've never seen engines crap out. They've never had to make any aeronautical decisions because all they know how to do is follow the "PIF".

PRO
I met a lot of really good friends while I was involved with their program. I made friends with several instructors and several students. Many of the guys in my hiring pool went on to work for CAA and eventually some of them have gone on to regional airlines. Its hard to find amongst the multitudes of completely inept and misguided army of potential aviators, but there are some there who really do have the "fire" and want to learn as much as they can about aviation and become the best pilots they can be. I've flown with a lot of guys that I really respected both in and outside the cockpit that got their start at CAA. Its a great place to be exposed to a very disciplined learning environment ; if you want to learn things like : at exactly what rpm the heading indicator gyro spins, or maybe, how many rivets are visible on the exterior of the C172. You guys think I am joking, but both of those items were required knowledge that could have BUSTED you on a checkride there if you didnt know it.

CON
No matter how much trivia you can vommit up about the C172 it is still just a 172. People in corporate, the airlines, or cargo dont care about how technical and deep your knowledge level goes concerning the impluse coupling or how much the magneto weighs. People who really fly airplanes for a living know that such knowledge is a waste to learn; sure its great to impress the non flying public, but what real use is it? All of the flying jobs I have ever had came from going out on the road with somebody and using your experience and knowledge to help them solve problems, get the pax where they needed to go, and get the airplane there safely and efficiently. Too many times I heard everyone flying at CAA tell me about how they were so proud to be sporting that new Commerical or Instrument certificate... but they had never really earned it. Part 141 is what is called "train to proficiency". Part 61 is what I call "train to experience". I liked flying part 61 much more because it asked me to face real challenges and let me build a wealth of experience you simply cannot do while at CAA or any part 141 environment. At CAA you paid a truck load of money for a rating.. and you got one. When they had paid enough money CAA passed them. My friends and I called the FSDO and the FAA many times on CAA graduates who were DANGEROUS and should not have held the certificates they did. We're talking about people who have CRASHED several times, tail struck, been violated by the FAA, busted airspace, let go of the flight controls while inflight in IMC conditions, and basicly demonstrated complete incompetence. However, somehow, they had crisp new CPLs from Comair.

PRO
Travel benefits. Need I say more? The guys who are hired as CFIs get employee pass travel benefits on Delta Airlines and its worldwide partners. Myself and several of the guys took trips all over North America and Europe on Delta's dime. This is probably the single best advantage to working at CAA. But you dont have good seniority and your priority code is low.

CON
If you go to CAA you will learn how to dance their way very quickly. Its a good old boy system where some people are quietly accepted for CFI positions while other strong canidates are turned away. Be wary of an alleged "confidential" out processing form. It is NOT confidential IN ANY WAY. They use the information you provide on that form against you in your HR interview with Jennifer - WATCH OUT that you dont tell the truth. best advice? Dont even fill it out. And if that isnt bad enough? They screw their employees royally on a daily basis. Signing the contract for 1000 dual @ $10 per hour also reads in small print that you will buy your MEI to the tune of $7000 ... when you do the math you are virtually working for free for two years if you are hired as a CFI with their company. Plan on spending LONG hours at the airport and not being paid for most of it. Be wary of management and their fickle employee relations. In 2003, they fired 40 instructors; some my good friends; over the summer months because of overstaffing. Completely fired them, no travel benefits, no cash, no interview with the airlines. That is when they found out that their certificates were trash because they had no hours and experience to back them up, they couldnt talk the talk or walk the walk because they had been taught the "comair way" which unfortunately does not jive with virtually anyone else in the business outside of Comair Airlines exclusively. CAA is also Delta's bastard step child. Although wholely owned by Delta, DAL makes absolutely no reference to them, never mentions their affiliation or taunts the business relationship. However, CAA will remind you every single day that you are "trained by Delta". When new potential losers come down to take a look at the academy, ambassadors show them a copy of the RJ FOM and show them the spot on the C172 checklist that says : "pushback - n/a" to make them feel all warm and fuzzy and believe that YES, they too can be a 777 Captain at age 22 and earn $350,000 per year so they can buy that "house on nantucket" you guys speak of. Its a business that has wretched Customer Service, a negative employee - management relationship, and a completely oblivious attitude. My favorite prank they pulled on the CFI's? We couldnt afford to put gas in the car to drive out to the airport so we asked for a little more $. Instead of giving us the money we needed they took everyone out to the bar for one night, let them get piss drunk, and then tauted it in front of us for the next year proclaiming that they had 'given us what we asked for' and spent 'a large sum'.

All in all, just stick out the normal route. Go to college if you want to and get your degree, then go start building flight time and experience outside of the training environment! Go fly freight, corporate, charter, whatever... build yourself up and learn something along the way. The reason the profession is in such shambles now is because of these CAA grads who jump into the cockpit not because they really want to, but because they thought it sounded good and have no other marketable skills after mommy and daddy footed the bill to put them through CAA's exorbitant fees and tuition. Calm down- wait your turn- and more than anything else - EARN IT!

 

[LXApilot]

Thats it, I'm done. If you do happen to go the "academy" keep your head bro. Go there and learn for what it is worth... its not the end all be all. Its a great place to START. Always be open to outside flying, get into some weather, fly a few different airplanes, apply all that goofy rote knowledge, and maybe someday you'll look back on it and value it for what is really is. FLIGHT SCHOOL. Look into yourself and ask yourself what kind of person you are deep down. This is a big decision that requires A LOT of coin. Are you someone who wants to earn their ratings and certificates and feel confident and proud in their skills and abilities, all the while building a story to tell? Or do you want the fast and easy way to the regional airline cockpit? its your choice. people have made it work either way - i'll leave it to you.

Fly Safe-
Colin

 

[bobbysamd]

Oppressive environment

The way they run the school is hideous with outdated equipment and management that really does not know what is going on half the time.

Its a business that has wretched Customer Service, a negative employee - management relationship, and a completely oblivious attitude. My favorite prank they pulled on the CFI's? We couldnt afford to put gas in the car to drive out to the airport so we asked for a little more $. Instead of giving us the money we needed they took everyone out to the bar for one night, let them get piss drunk, and then tauted it in front of us for the next year proclaiming that they had 'given us what we asked for' and spent 'a large sum' . . . .

In other words, an oppressive environment.

I rest my case. Thanks for posting.

 

[SMOE]

Bodean and LXApilot,
Hear, hear. I could have written those posts myself. Nothing more to add about the self-proclaimed "center of the aviation universe"...

 

[NuGuy]

In other words, an oppressive environment.

I rest my case. Thanks for posting.

Heyas Bobby,

Man, I wouldn't even argue with Skydesk or the other clowns...I mean, in 1991 he was probably watching some ABC After School Special or something while his mother whipped him up some mac and cheese and telling him to wipe his nose.

FWIW, I also interviewed at Comair in 1991, but fortunately I lived in FL at the time. I went to interview with a dude by the name of Fry. Not even a hint of a letter, phone call or anything. The place was chaos.

If you made it 24 months, you got the interview, 16 if you were a CFI at CAA. Didn't matter, you still had to pay the bucks for the job at Comair.

For those noobs, Comair was PFT back in the 1990's. The whole thing started when TWExpress (the wholly owned outfit...ex-Ransome, NOT TSA) contracted with FSI to do their new hire training. I still remember the article in Flying Magazine about it...First dude's name to do it was Hoadly, or something like that. Everyone soon jumped on the bandwagon, and Comair was the first in like. 12k, or something like that, got you in the E-120 or the Saab.

What everyone at this stage of the game needs to remember is all of aviation management is basically crisis management. Doesn't matter what you fly or where you fly it. AMR to Joe Bob's Flying Cheques Service....management is always stamping out fires.

Flight school management is the same except that A) the dudes in charge are basically making zero dollars for a PITA job (IE getting called by various ATC facilities, airport managements and/or the FSDOs on a weekly basis for some infractions or stunts); B)These same people are looking to split with a clean record OR trying to smooze into a higher paying job and C) the non-flying types are empire-builders and will make every effort to make their job more important than it really is, usually at your expense.

The primary job of any large 141 magagement type is to support the sales staff. Period. The sales staff has priority over everybody else. Operations, maintenece, ground support, everybody. Believe it or not, but the actual flight training is the red-headed step child of any large flight training outfit.

The primary job any Chief Instructor is to A) Keep the FAA off the backs of the school and B) Keep the disgruntled students (whether rightfully so or not) off the backs of the school and C) Fire or intimidate anyone who interferes with sales, or causes problems.

Administrative F*@# Ups happen all the time because the ground pounders don't do their jobs. Better grin and bear it.

It doesn't matter what your problem is. In such a closed enviroment, every slight, imagined or otherwise will be remembered and recorded. Trivial ground school items will be required, because that is all they know how to show dominion over students. Besides, you need to show all the other 500 hour Roosters how bad-a$$ you are by knowing how many rivets in a 172, but couldn't something do important like how to run a self-serve fuel pump or divert to a grass field.

Also, big school/little school doesn't matter. It all comes down to the individual CFI. If you luck out and hook up with a guy/gal you can stand who has more than a half hearted interest and you can keep your nose out of any trouble, you can do ok.

If I were to recommend anything to anyone it would be:

1) First, don't do it. Go to Law school (personal bankruptcy is a growth field) or Med school. Make some bank, date some hotties, get your own airplane, retire early and enjoy life.

2) If young, get your degree, and do your flying on the side part 61. Even if it's just your private or instrument. Get your feet wet to see if you like it or not. Don't get a degree in aviation unless it has some real world application away from airplanes like an A&P, accounting or management.

3) If you are older and/or have a family, you better be made of serious $$$$, because if you proceed, it will be a long and expensive route. If your spouse doesn't understand now, they never will and it will only get worse as the money flows.

3) If you are going to a big 141 school, don't bank on that interview. Only about 3 in 10 make it that far, so if you are going to go, go with that in mind and learn as much as you can about the outside aviation world. Hope you have some gold, cause it WILL cost you more than quoted.

4) No one gives two steaming grumpies about where your tickets came from. Quoting where you did your ratings only makes you look like an self-important twit.

Nu